Bilgeboy
Carrboro, NC
Boat Name: Kosher Cannoli, Northern Light
Model/Year: C22 Swing 1988, C34 Wing 2003
Hull No. 14447, 1632
Hailing Port: Kerr Lake, NC |
 12/09/2009 9:30 PM Pacific Time
Due to water rot, I'll be replacing the starboard bulkhead spring '10. The bulkheads are only attached by screws in a few places. They are not tabbed or attached to the hull at all. In addition to the screws, is it worth attaching the new bulkhead to the hull with some type of adheasive - like 3M 4200?
~BilgeBoy |
paul osborne
Lima NY
Boat Name: Emy Lyn II
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Rochester |
12/10/2009 7:14 AM Pacific Time
Mine are bolted to the seat / fiberglass that they are next to. |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
12/11/2009 9:06 AM Pacific Time
On your model boat, the chainplate goes through a slot in the deck that has a finish plate over it. The natural working of the rigging allows water to follow the chainplate down to the bulkhead attaching bolts and cause rot over time. I've had to replace mine for the same reasons. Use a good, waterproofed wood for the bulkhead. A marine grade plywood with teak or mahogany finish veneers will do the job well and will be a great improvement over the original. The most important thing is to cut the new BH to the exact size as the old, especially the top edge as this supports the deck at the chainplate and you don't want any flexing of the deck at this spot. If you are careful, you can reuse the wood moulding from the old BH. Work it off carefully with a thin spatula and use a waterproof glue to reattach. The vinyl edging can be reattached with staples-use monel so they wont rust. Use a good wood finish to seal and protect the wood. Try to fasten the chainplate so it is pointing in the same direction as before-lined up with the shroud. Once it is bolted on, place the trim cap over it and fasten the shroud. Put a little tension on it to position it correctly. Place the trim cap and line up the screw holes. Start the screws to hold it in place. Draw an outline around the trim cap, lift it out of the way and mask it with tape on the line. Leave a small space between the tape and the line. Lay a nice layer of caulk-I like 4200-inside the line about a quarter inch thick. Fill the slot with caulk around the chainplates. Screw down the trim cover about half way so you don't squeeze out the caulk. Let it set up until tacky and remove the tape with the extra caulk. Let it set up overnight and tighten down the trim cap all the way. I did mine like this about eight years ago and caulked it once since then as preventative maintenance and have had no leaks. Keep an eye on the wood around the chainplate holes for water staining. |
Wes Sherrill
Concord, NC
Boat Name: Summer Breeze
Model/Year: C 22/1988 fin keel
Hull No. 14333
Hailing Port: Lake Tillery, NC |
12/22/2009 8:55 PM Pacific Time
Howard
I need to replace a rotten bulkhead also. Were able to find a marine plywood with the veneer already attached? Where did you find it? I've looked online but haven't found what you used/described. |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
12/23/2009 3:51 PM Pacific Time
I went to a large lumber yard that dealt in hardwood plywoods. You should be able to find an exterior grade or marine grade plywood with a hardwood veneer such as mahogany. Teak may be more difficult and is really unnecessary. The important thing is that the glues are waterproof. There are specialty lumber shops in most cities. Even Asheville has a few and it's a pretty small town. Where is Concord? Is it near any major cities in NC. West Marine carries marine plywood in some stores but charges a half-body(more than an arm and a leg). Cabinet makers will have a good source of hardwood ply and so will boatyards. Good luck finding some and Merry Christmas. |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
12/23/2009 3:56 PM Pacific Time
Wes-I see that concord is near Charlotte and I know there is at least one good lumber yard there for plywood. A cabinet maker friend of mine built cabinets for his daughter who lives in Charlotte. Do a Google search in the area. |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
12/23/2009 4:00 PM Pacific Time
Dixie Lumber is the name of the supplier he used. They list marine grade fir plywood as well as many other hardwood plys. Just check to see if they use waterproof glue on the non-marine grades. |
Bilgeboy
Carrboro, NC
Boat Name: Kosher Cannoli, Northern Light
Model/Year: C22 Swing 1988, C34 Wing 2003
Hull No. 14447, 1632
Hailing Port: Kerr Lake, NC |
12/24/2009 7:58 AM Pacific Time
Thanks for the informative and detailed info Howard. I'll update in the spring.
~BilgeBoy |
Bilbo
Youngstown, Ohio
Boat Name: Sea Dog
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1987
Hull No. 13971
Hailing Port: Andover, Ohio |
12/27/2009 7:26 AM Pacific Time
"The most important thing is to cut the new BH to the exact size as the old, especially the top edge as this supports the deck at the chainplate and you don't want any flexing of the deck at this spot."
Very true.
Something else to consider. Another aspect of this issue is that the bulkhead has vertical tension put on it by the upper shroud at the chainplate. This is even more true of the windward side of the boat's shrouds. So, infact the integrity of the deck is keeping the mast in column and preventing the bulkhead from rising further. The lower bulkhead attachments in the cabin do little to prevent this.
On mine, I used West system epoxy to coat the bulkheads with a waterproof finish after I drilled out the chainplate holes in them. I have also tried to seal as many of the holes through the deck fiberglass that I can with epoxy before attaching the hardware (Screws or covers).
Something to consider as well. The chainplates are able to move slightly because of this arrangement and if one uses a more pliable caulking underneath the cover plates, the movement will not be as easily inclined to break the seal in time.
|
Wes Sherrill
Concord, NC
Boat Name: Summer Breeze
Model/Year: C 22/1988 fin keel
Hull No. 14333
Hailing Port: Lake Tillery, NC |
12/29/2009 7:33 PM Pacific Time
I have only had my boat for about 2 months and had not noticed how the chain plate went thru the deck. I was suprised to see that there was just a slot with the chainplate going thru it and the chainplate was not attached to the deck. I noticed there was no silicone/caulk around the opening. I guess that explains why my bulkhead is rotten at the base. I understand now that the chainplate gets its support by pulling the bulkhead up againist the bottom of the deck. I'm going to epoxy the new BH.
I also have a rotten wood front on the starboard locker, forward of the stove. I'm going to replace it also. Is there any downside to epoxying all the wood in the cabin to prevent it from ever rotting? I would think it would be easier to wipe the mildew off. |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
12/30/2009 11:04 AM Pacific Time
Wes, there is no downside to epoxying everything but it really is overkill. If you follow Wes' advice and do the bolt holes as well as following my advice on caulking the slots, you should not have any problems. The fact that you had no caulk on the chainplate slots really explains the rot. Water will follow the chainplate down to the bolt holes and settle there. The original BH wood was not waterproofed to begin with. |
Bilgeboy
Carrboro, NC
Boat Name: Kosher Cannoli, Northern Light
Model/Year: C22 Swing 1988, C34 Wing 2003
Hull No. 14447, 1632
Hailing Port: Kerr Lake, NC |
08/09/2010 10:52 AM Pacific Time
I finally got around to fixing the bulkhead. After removing it, the damage was only at the bottom of the board. Water leaked through the chainplate and pooled on the seat against the wood. The top side and chainplate holes were fine. Using a putty knife, I completed the delaminating to a uniform depth up to the bolt holes used to attach to the liner. Each ply layer was filled with epoxy and the wood was evenly clamped to ½ inch. Once cured, the bulkhead was cleaned, sanded and all edges and holes epoxy coated. Then two coats of urethane. The vinyl trim was trashed so a small strip of ~1/8 x 1/2“ rubber cushion was spot glued onto the edges that contact fiberglass. Then the chainplate was cleaned and reinstalled as described by Howard a few entries earlier.
It looks good and cost much less that a whole sheet of plywood. So far it’s performing well this season. Had the delam been at the top, I probably would have replaced it with new wood.
BTW, The nuts holding the bottom of the board to the liner are difficult to reach ~ especially for a big guy like me. So, I replaced them with flat SS tee nuts which were glued in place. Now I just have to find the wrench, vice grips, head lamp and washers that slid into the bilge :-)
|
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
08/10/2010 10:00 AM Pacific Time
I bet you're glad that's over. It should be good for the life of the boat if you just redo the chainplate caulking if you notice any staining. Finding the tools is another matter-at least you don't have to dive for them! |
George S Breig
CAMBRIDGE, MD
Boat Name: Jitterbug
Model/Year: Catalina 270/2003
Hull No. 319
Hailing Port: Cambridge Creek, Maryland |
08/10/2010 3:05 PM Pacific Time
I'm brand new (today) to the C22 forum, and have been reading lots of threads. I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I replaced starboard bulkhead, and before fabricating it, I called to price one. Reasonable price, delivered within a week, matched perfectly the existing wood and port bulkhead, was pre-drilled, and included the edge molding, etc. Very easy to install, for even a klutz like me. I'm a "wing-keeler", with sailing experience but no trailering experience,so am very interested in those areas of discussion. Florida-based, but Howard, I've got a house in Canton, on the border of the Pisgah Forest, so am in NC often. I'm learning tons here by following old discussions. Thanks. |
George S Breig
CAMBRIDGE, MD
Boat Name: Jitterbug
Model/Year: Catalina 270/2003
Hull No. 319
Hailing Port: Cambridge Creek, Maryland |
08/10/2010 3:05 PM Pacific Time
I'm brand new (today) to the C22 forum, and have been reading lots of threads. I'm a day late and a dollar short, but I replaced starboard bulkhead, and before fabricating it, I called to price one. Reasonable price, delivered within a week, matched perfectly the existing wood and port bulkhead, was pre-drilled, and included the edge molding, etc. Very easy to install, for even a klutz like me. I'm a "wing-keeler", with sailing experience but no trailering experience,so am very interested in those areas of discussion. Florida-based, but Howard, I've got a house in Canton, on the border of the Pisgah Forest, so am in NC often. I'm learning tons here by following old discussions. Thanks. |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
08/11/2010 9:02 AM Pacific Time
Hi Jim-I live in Brevard NC, not so far from you. I am a member of Keowee Sailing Club on lake Keowee in Seneca SC. It is a wonderful member owned and operated club. Its website is "KeoweeSailingClub.com". I believe it is the closest lake to you that is large enough for real sailing-much larger than anything else in our area. Check it out. Summers tend to be very hot and calm most days but you can sail the other three seasons-even in winter. You can contact me off-site at "[email protected]". |
George S Breig
CAMBRIDGE, MD
Boat Name: Jitterbug
Model/Year: Catalina 270/2003
Hull No. 319
Hailing Port: Cambridge Creek, Maryland |
08/11/2010 2:56 PM Pacific Time
I don't believe that CatalinaDirect sells bulkheads, so hopefully it is OK for me to say (even on their sponsored Forum) that I simply called the Catalina factory in CA. They had it in stock and it shipped the next day. It looks bigger in the boat, but this is really a pretty small piece of wood. I imagine that they shape and build a few in advance for the production line, and they probably just pulled mine from their production stock. Most stuff I'd prefer to buy through CD, but this time CD didn't have it, and the factory came through. |
George S Breig
CAMBRIDGE, MD
Boat Name: Jitterbug
Model/Year: Catalina 270/2003
Hull No. 319
Hailing Port: Cambridge Creek, Maryland |
08/11/2010 2:56 PM Pacific Time
I don't believe that CatalinaDirect sells bulkheads, so hopefully it is OK for me to say (even on their sponsored Forum) that I simply called the Catalina factory in CA. They had it in stock and it shipped the next day. It looks bigger in the boat, but this is really a pretty small piece of wood. I imagine that they shape and build a few in advance for the production line, and they probably just pulled mine from their production stock. Most stuff I'd prefer to buy through CD, but this time CD didn't have it, and the factory came through. |
George S Breig
CAMBRIDGE, MD
Boat Name: Jitterbug
Model/Year: Catalina 270/2003
Hull No. 319
Hailing Port: Cambridge Creek, Maryland |
08/13/2010 6:32 AM Pacific Time
The bulkhead came completely finished - plywood with a medium dark woodgrain finish. The curved molding on the outer edge of the bulhead was also attached. It comes with a rough pre-cut radius for the edge that butts up agains the inside of the hull. Using a sanding block, electric sander, etc., you have to shape the curve to match yur hull. I just did this by trial and error, and I didn't do a very good job, but it looks OK and works fine. The chainplate holes were pre-drilled, as were the bolt holes that attach the bottom of the new bulkhead to the fiberglass "half-bulkhead" in the hull. |
George S Breig
CAMBRIDGE, MD
Boat Name: Jitterbug
Model/Year: Catalina 270/2003
Hull No. 319
Hailing Port: Cambridge Creek, Maryland |
08/13/2010 6:32 AM Pacific Time
The bulkhead came completely finished - plywood with a medium dark woodgrain finish. The curved molding on the outer edge of the bulhead was also attached. It comes with a rough pre-cut radius for the edge that butts up agains the inside of the hull. Using a sanding block, electric sander, etc., you have to shape the curve to match yur hull. I just did this by trial and error, and I didn't do a very good job, but it looks OK and works fine. The chainplate holes were pre-drilled, as were the bolt holes that attach the bottom of the new bulkhead to the fiberglass "half-bulkhead" in the hull. |
