Joel
New Lenox, IL
Boat Name: C-Dog
Model/Year: 1978
Hull No. CTYH8427M781
Hailing Port: Varies |
 09/04/2010 7:50 AM Pacific Time
I recently purchased a Cat 22 with my three sons. In looking for a hull leak I found the winch cable thru hull fitting is loose (It's a swing keel model). I can twist the fitting a few degrees in either direction as it passes through the hull. I cannot move it up or down (I theorize the threads on the bottom still have enough hold on the fiberglass to hold it in place). I know these thru hull fittings are/were a weak feature of these boats and prone to failure. I also know this fitting can sink your boat if it fails. Has anyone done a repair on this fitting that can give me some tips? I see the plastic thru hull fitting on CD website, but don't think this fitting is intended for this application nor should it be plastic (not sure)? Furthermore, the fitting is up inside a recessed pocket on the bottom of the hull and it doesn't appear that any kind of a "proper" thru hull fitting with a flange can be used. I have saw cut (Dremel tool) on the top portion of the volcano to expose the fitting and have it cleaned up. I am thinking about drilling and tapping a hole on either side of the fitting and then installing brass or SS screws that will be flush on the inside of the filling. My thinking is that these screw heads will give me something to hold onto when I fiberglass in around the fitting. One other strange thing I cannot figure out: The cable attachment point on the swing keel is approximately 3" behind the center of the thru hull fitting and has been rubbing on the back side of the fitting when we bring the keel up. It is starting to form a groove inside the fitting. The cable fitting on the back of the keel looks like the standard threaded fitting that I see on the CD website, and it looks like the original factory threaded hole for attachment of this fitting. The pivot pin in the front of the keel is in fairly good condition, although it has not been upgraded and still has the usual side play I read about. The pivot hole in the keel does not look deformed or oval, so I think there is still a lot of life in it before this part of the assembly would have to be repaired/upgraded. There is about 2" of clearance in the front - between the front of the swing keel and the keel trunk when the keel is in the up (trailered) position, so I don't think the position of the front pivot hole has been moved during rework. I know I can drop the keel and rework the entire assembly and will probably do so at some point. I'm just not sure I am ready for that just yet. I would actually like to repair the thru hull fitting/rotating ball/rubber hose assembly, then sail her a few more weeks this year. Then, after the season is over, I will consider dropping the keel if I have to. In the meantime, does anyone have any ideas about why the cable fitting on the back of the keel would be this far back and how to correct it without dropping the keel? |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: For Spacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
09/05/2010 7:53 AM Pacific Time
"The cable attachment point on the swing keel is approximately 3" behind the center of the thru hull fitting and has been rubbing on the back side of the fitting when we bring the keel up. It is starting to form a groove inside the fitting."
There should be a roller guide wheel pinned inside the volcano that keeps the cable off the volcano side, acts as a pivot point for the cable and lets it run freely to the keel. |
Greg Baker
Charlotte, NC
Boat Name: Sea Sharp Minor
Model/Year: Catalina 22 - 1984 - Swing Keel
Hull No. 11823
Hailing Port: Lake Norman Sailing Club |
09/05/2010 8:40 AM Pacific Time
The swing keel cable goes through a hose (looks like a radiator hose) which is attached to the volcano. Inside the volcano is the "turning ball" which is really an odd shaped pulley that guides the cable between the winch and the clevis on the keel. You can see the parts in this repair kit at CD:
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=1623 |
Joel
New Lenox, IL
Boat Name: C-Dog
Model/Year: 1978
Hull No. CTYH8427M781
Hailing Port: Varies |
09/05/2010 9:57 AM Pacific Time
Thanks for your replies Howard and Greg. I do have a new turning ball with the Delrin bushing and the pin for it. I also have a new reinforced rubber hose and clamps. I bought all of this directly from CD, so they are the same ones as shown in the kit. I don't have the cable yet, but I will go ahead an purchase the correct cable from CD also. The old turning ball had a small flat on it, but appeared to be installed correctly with the cable on the aft side of the turning ball. So I will go ahead and replace those parts for safe keeping after I epoxy in the loose thru hull fitting. Still, I don't understand how my keel eyebolt is 3" behind the thru-hull fitting???
I found this retractable keel section with diagram which is from an '87 Cat 22 manual.
http://www.catalina22.org/manuals/mnl87/handbook.htm#4.7
The illustration looks to be exactly what I have, except it shows the keel eyebolt directly below the thru hull fitting, or if anything, slightly fore of the fitting. Mine is 3" aft!
I don't know if I've got a keel off of a newer boat, or if something has been reworked and misaligned? Either way, the cable is rubbing on the aft side of the thru hull fitting. It's got me stumped! |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: For Spacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
09/06/2010 7:50 AM Pacific Time
The keel cable should be on the aft side of the roller ball as it runs forward as the keel is lowered but should be directly underneath the winch when in the fully retracted position. I had the same year boat as you and that's how mine was set up. It is possible that the keel was replaced and the cable fitting was installed incorrectly or it was not an exact replacement keel, possibly from a different model year or boat. Is it possible to drill a new hole in the keel in the correct position and move the cable clamp forward? |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: For Spacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
09/06/2010 8:25 AM Pacific Time
Joel- according to your hull ID, I believe your boat is a '78 model built in August of that year. |
Joel
New Lenox, IL
Boat Name: C-Dog
Model/Year: 1978
Hull No. CTYH8427M781
Hailing Port: Varies |
09/06/2010 8:53 AM Pacific Time
I believe you are right Howard - that it must be a replacement keel. I am going to look at re-mounting the eyebolt in the correct position by drilling and tapping a new hole. I am not sure if I can do this without dropping the keel, although it might be possible? Not sure, but I will check that out. Also, thanks for the info on the model year of the boat. I've been a bit confused about that also (my title says 1979?). |
Joel
New Lenox, IL
Boat Name: C-Dog
Model/Year: 1978
Hull No. CTYH8427M781
Hailing Port: Varies |
09/06/2010 8:58 AM Pacific Time
Oops! My title says 1978 as you indicated Howard! |
Greg Baker
Charlotte, NC
Boat Name: Sea Sharp Minor
Model/Year: Catalina 22 - 1984 - Swing Keel
Hull No. 11823
Hailing Port: Lake Norman Sailing Club |
09/07/2010 7:44 AM Pacific Time
Joel, I don't think you need to drop the keel completely to get access to drill a new hole. If you drop the tongue of your trailer as low as you can, then shore up the boat near the transom, then raise the tongue as high as you can, you will find the stern rises off the trailer enough to drop the keel quit a bit. It will then rest on the trailer so you can remove the cable. As I remember, you don't need to tap the hole as the keel end of the cable has a clevis and a smooth pin. The pin is held in with a cotter pin. |
Joel
New Lenox, IL
Boat Name: C-Dog
Model/Year: 1978
Hull No. CTYH8427M781
Hailing Port: Varies |
09/08/2010 6:50 AM Pacific Time
Greg, Thanks for the tips about using the trailer to lift the back end of the boat. It makes sense. What would I use to support the transom end of the boat? Jack stands? I might be able to rent them. Or I have seen posts where others have built support stands using framing lumber or wood timbers. I am not sure how much room I need to gain to drill and tap, but I do know that my keel has an eyebolt threaded vertically down into the keel. I believe this is the original factory arrangement because the same eyebolt is available via Catalina Direct. The cable has a U-shaped fork on the end that attaches to the eyebolt using a clevis pin. I might be able to gain enough room to drill and tap a new mounting hole using something like a right-angle drill (once I lift the back end of the boat). Otherwise, I am wondering about making a special bracket to attach to the keel using horizontal bolts or clevis pins. Still trying to sort out my options... |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: For Spacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
09/08/2010 1:01 PM Pacific Time
You could use anything really sturdy such as concrete blocks with a 4x4 wood beam across the blocks. I have done this with success but make sure you have a hard level footing for the blocks and everything is stable and secure. Make wooden wedge chocks for both sides of the boat to steady it from rocking side to side on the wood beam. The trailer will still have some contact with the boat to keep it steady. You should be able to lower the keel enough to get at it with a normal drill. There should be enough clearance to use a toggled fitting instead of a threaded one. It should work fine as long as there's enough clearance around it when the keel is winched up. |
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA
Boat Name: SAILYNN
Model/Year: SWING 1984
Hull No. 11994
Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA |
09/09/2010 4:26 PM Pacific Time
some people use two 55 gl. metal oil or paint barrels under the support beams on a flat smooth surface. Check the website for Catalina 22 Dumbo made by David Torisi in CA. He has some great pictures of his boats restoration. Good Luck. |
Joel
New Lenox, IL
Boat Name: C-Dog
Model/Year: 1978
Hull No. CTYH8427M781
Hailing Port: Varies |
05/10/2011 6:32 AM Pacific Time
Just wanted to say thanks to Greg, Howard, and Lynn for the feedback on this project last year. I re-epoxied the fitting into the volcano and it worked fine. I simply ground back some of the old fiberglass on the top of the fitting, roughed up the metal fitting with sandpaper, cleaned everything real well with Acetone, and used epoxy with fiberglass cloth to build it back up.
As far as the eyelet in the back of my keel being back too far - well, I am repairing that now as part of a keel pivot assembly rebuild which I will post on another thread. Thanks again for the help! |
