Lee
Boat Name: Midnight Oil
Model/Year: c22sk 1978
Hull No. 8186
Hailing Port: |
 05/27/2004 1:10 PM Pacific Time
Just bought a new kick-up rudder from Catalina Direct. The old one broke away while heeled over in 20mph winds...but that is another story. Question: The rudder shipped with a cap nut and washers attached to the pivot point where the tension handle screws on. When I install the handle, there is no room left for the cap nut. Is the cap nut supposed to be screwed on along with the handle or not? Thanks. |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
05/27/2004 6:07 PM Pacific Time
The handle is used to tighten the rudder housing against the blade to prevent it from kicking up, unless it strikes something. I don't believe you need the cap nut. My kickup does not have a cap nut. |
Lee
Boat Name: Midnight Oil
Model/Year: c22sk 1978
Hull No. 8186
Hailing Port: |
05/27/2004 8:43 PM Pacific Time
My old rudder had no nut either. I thought of tossing the hardware but then wondered why the rudder would have shipped with a nut, washer, and locking washer on its pivot point. Seems elaborate packing material. I tried to call CDs "free" technical support number for an answer. Unfortunately, all I get is a recording telling me to call back later. |
Paul David
Melbourne Australia
Boat Name: Reflections
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13369
Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia |
05/27/2004 11:52 PM Pacific Time
All this talk about rudder breakages being a common problem suggests that we should be carrying at least some plywood cut to size, built up at the tiller area and pre-drilled to have in an emergency. Makes sense to me. |
Dave
West Bend, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1988 C22
Hull No. #14447
Hailing Port: Oshkosh, WI |
05/28/2004 6:14 AM Pacific Time
I just received a new kick-up rudder blade from CD last week and I did not get any hardware with it whatsoever. I just used the existing hardware I had and all fits and works fine.
Maybe the cap nut is used as a safety to keep the handle from scewing all the way off. That's assuming there's room to tighten the nut til it bottoms out and still have room to normally operate the handle for tightening and loosening the blade. |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
05/28/2004 6:40 PM Pacific Time
The force on the tiller req |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
05/28/2004 6:46 PM Pacific Time
The force on the rudder is proportional to the force on the tiller. The force on the tiller required to keep the boat moving straight is dependent on the balance of the boat...in other words the relationship between the center of effort of the sails and the center of resistance of the hull. If you need to use both hands on the rudder and both feet on the opposite seat to go straight, the boat is not balanced properly. I was out sailing in 20 knots and was able to take my hand off the tiller for several seconds without the boat turning up or down wind. I was sailing with a 110 jib only. The forward sailing area counteracted the heeling force, and the boat wanted to go straight. If I had been sailing with a main and jib, I would have had severe weather helm. If you balance the boat to keep the tiller force down, the rudder will have small forces acting upon it, and should not break. |
Dave
West Bend, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1988 C22
Hull No. #14447
Hailing Port: Oshkosh, WI |
06/01/2004 9:50 AM Pacific Time
I've never tried to sail my 22 with jib only. It amazes me that you didn't have lee helm with just the jib. The center of pressure had to have been well forward of the center of lateral resistance. I did sail once with just the main and it was awful. There was so much weather helm I was afraid of damaging the rudder or tiller so I put the jib back up. My boat balances perfectly with both the main and jib. I'm really curious as to how you can balance without the main. Does that only work in higher winds? Are you talking about downwind only? Were you able to point upwind at all with just the jib? |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
06/01/2004 2:00 PM Pacific Time
I sailed in 15-20 knot winds last Friday with my 150 furled to 130 and no main with only light pressure needed on the tiler. I beat up a narrow bay making good headway each tack. It is true that in light winds, I would have a lee helm with just the jib up, but I think the weather helm induced by the hull shape when I heel counteracts it. |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
06/02/2004 5:33 AM Pacific Time
I agree with Michael. The boat seems to balance well in heavy air with only the jib. Even with a heavily reefed main, the weather helm is excessive in blows. the boat rounds up often in puffs.
I suspect there is a little more leeway when I sail this way, but I don't know if this is due to the forward center of effort or the heeling. One thing you need to do when sailing with jib only is tack agressively. A slow tack will stall the boat.
Another benefit of sailing with jib only in a blow is the ability to "wear" or gybe instead of tack when going upwind. You don't the sickening snap on the rigging that you get when wearing with a main. I trim the jib in for this maneuver, then let it out on the other side as the wind passes the centerline. Much easier on the rigging. |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
06/02/2004 5:58 AM Pacific Time
I have used a 110 in +30 winds & had a blast with easy sailing on a hard sailing day. The helm was very balanced, the only problem I noticed was at times the tail of the boat did not want to slide over – (potential breach) – it never happened but downwind she was kind of fishtailing.
In a race last weekend, single handing in 20 to 25 winds I when out with full sail & my new 150 Mylar up & running. Yes, I was extremely over powered but knew sail changes were out of the question. As long as I kept the slot opened between the sails, I could balance the tiller pressure. If I had too much tiller pressure, I was effectively braking the boat. With the benefit of 25 to 27 foot boats just ahead of me I knew when to ease the sheets to prevent round ups, based on their reactions to the gusts. The little 22 put many of the bigger boats to shame, though I doubt they had the blisters – no cleats used in those winds.
Too much rudder means let out the sail.
If anyone has high wind sailed with just a 150 I would like to know how she handled, it sound as if the 130 only did fine too.
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059
Over Keel
|
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22 '76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
06/02/2004 7:34 AM Pacific Time
Bob Vick has the right idea, let out the sail. One good exercise that I was forced into the first time and then repeated in other boats, is to take the rudder off or let it flop, and go sailing. This forces you to trim and guide the boat with the sails only. It will give you a real appreciation for using as little rudder control as possible on all points of sail.
As for sailing in high winds, I prefer a reefed main, but I have used 150's only, never tried a 110 alone. Remember when you cat boat with the main you cannot pull it in as you do with a jib up too. We passed silver fleet boats in a 20+ race with jibs and reefed mains, while wearing only the reefed main, we were standing straighter and moving easier it seemed. We saw them heeled over and rounding up. However, the gold fleet 1st and 2nd lost thier masts right after finishing with jibs. They had three man crews and weight to hold them flat. For what it's worth, Al Ge |
Martin Henry
Moore, Oklahoma
Boat Name: Madness
Model/Year: 1989
Hull No. 14953
Hailing Port: Lake Thunderbird |
06/02/2004 5:19 PM Pacific Time
I have a 110, 135 and 150 and have sailed with each of them alone. Just, last weekend in 15 knts we logged just over 17 miles with just the 110 flying. Sun was shining and hot, 92 degs with the new bimini up we had a fantastic time. |
Dave
West Bend, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1988 C22
Hull No. #14447
Hailing Port: Oshkosh, WI |
06/02/2004 5:43 PM Pacific Time
This is great info! I'll give it a try next time I'm out in brisk winds. I've got three different sized head sails, so I can try them all and see how the boat handles with each. |
