Frank Alder
Carlisle, MA
Boat Name: Dawn Treader
Model/Year: 1971
Hull No. 3055
Hailing Port: Boston |
 06/12/2004 5:40 PM Pacific Time
This sounds anathema, but our C22 is now land-locked for a couple of years (kids!). We're considering converting it to river use with a motor only while our kids get older. Has anyone done this? I'm considering removing the keel and replacing it with a low-weight centerboard (small) to enable us to tool around the local waterways. Any advice would be appreciated!
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Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
06/13/2004 4:15 AM Pacific Time
If you change the weigh of the keel, you will affect the stability of the boat. Any reason why you wouldn't just leave the standard keel up? |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
06/13/2004 9:38 AM Pacific Time
I agree with Michael. The swing keel is designed to stabilize the boat. It will likely ride higher with a lighter board, plus have a higher center of gravity, so it could become a lot more tippy.
Besides, the boat only draws 2 feet with the board up, no more that a standard deep vee powerboat hull.
On most river shores, I'm sure you'll be able to nose the boat into shore and still have water under the keel. I do this fairly often on Lake Ontario and its tributaries. The mast is always the bigger problem, with power lines and overhanging trees. Without the mast, this should be easy.
Finally, the keel provides a little protection for the prop, which is more than you can say for most outboards.
I'd just get a cheap fishfinder/depthfinder for the boat, slap your outboard on it and enjoy!
Chip Lee |
Vic
Indianapolis, Indiana
Boat Name: Summer Zamboni
Model/Year: 1985?
Hull No. 13100
Hailing Port: Geist Marina, Indianapolis |
06/14/2004 7:14 AM Pacific Time
I alos suggest keeping the keel up, but on the boat to enhance stablility./ My boat's use as a sailboat is also limited due tho my kids' preferences. However, one thing that I do that my kids enjoy is to tie tubes to long lines attaced to the boat at the rear cleats, and pul them around the lake on which I "sail." My boat is equiped withn an Evinrude 9.9 hp that pulls them along at a spritely clip, that they seem to enjoy. The motor is strong enough to pull up to four of them.
Even though using my wonderful sailboat as a kiddie barge bothers my sense of propriety, it still provides me with lots of quality time with both the kids and the boat..
Vic Indiano,
Summer Zamboni #13100 |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
06/14/2004 3:41 PM Pacific Time
Hey, when you're a parent, "quality time" cannot be measured by others. Enjoy!
Chip Lee |
Murray Pakes
Maplewood, NJ
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
07/19/2004 9:44 AM Pacific Time
I am considering the same - also due to youngsters.
The benefits of removing the keel are many - lower draft facilitates beaching, allows shallower launch and retrieval by dropping the bunks on the trailer, lighter to tow and lighter on gas on the water.
I understand that the keel provides stability to the boat, but is it not there primarily to counteract the lateral force generated by the sail? Without the sail, the self righting capability provided by the keel is hopefully not required.
One idea to retain stability after swing keel removal might be to add some ballast at the lowest point of the hull (next to the keel case), such as some sandbags or equivalent to make the boat sufficiently stable and safe? Perhaps 350 lbs to start, and then add or remove to taste? This will reduce the draft substantially with no keel in place and still provide sufficient stability for safe motoring. Might even be an idea to put in a water container and fill it after launching and empty after use - an ad hoc water ballasted motor launch...
I need to do some keel maintenance anyway, so I will do some testing over the next month or so and report back if there is any interest.
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Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
07/20/2004 7:27 AM Pacific Time
Murray, if you're going to do it anyway (for keel maintenance), I'd be interested in knowing what happens when you float the boat with no keel:
Does it list to one side?
How much higher is the stripe pff the water?
How tippy is it to board?
How much weight must you add to stabilize it?
It would seem that a 25% reduction in total weight, all from the bottom, would have a significant impact, but nothing beats a "lab" to study it! Please share if you get the time.
Thanks, Chip Lee |
david martin
hutchinson island fl
Boat Name: barefoot gourmet
Model/Year: cat 22 1977
Hull No. 7942 (?)
Hailing Port: Hutchinsom Island Fl |
07/22/2004 6:30 AM Pacific Time
as often happens people dont always listen to the question. The point was could you remove the c board if motoring exclusively . Since this implies removing the mast I would say that there should be no problem at all and you could add a little ballast if it made it more comfortable . There ghave been many stories of people losing their c board and sailing back to port obviously the boat would be very tender and you could not have too much wind . I say whatever gets you out on the water is OK |
J.A. Smith
Newport News, VA
Boat Name: Miss Kitty
Model/Year: Swing Keel 1974
Hull No. 3520
Hailing Port: Merrimac Shore Yacht Basin, VA |
08/29/2004 1:57 AM Pacific Time
Check with Rod Hinerman (email me and I'll give you his email address if it's not listed). He removed his swing keel and is using his cat 22 as a fishing boat for at least a couple of years (I bought his swing keel so I know it's not on the boat). He also modified the pop top so it's permanently up and enclosed. |
Murray Pakes
Maplewood, NJ
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
09/04/2004 5:49 PM Pacific Time
Chip,
Keel is out and I have spent the last week on the water - happy to report that there appear to be no major side effects to keel removal given that no sailing is envisaged.
I have no additional ballast (none proved necessary on my boat) - no perceptible list; the waterline looked pretty even and obviously a little higher. Stability worked out better than I thought. I had the wife and two youngsters on board and all were quite happy with boarding and under way. Not tippy at all. Perhaps the slot in which the keel normally resides provides some lateral movement resistance? The ability to beach was much appreciated - 1 and 2 year old have a lot of building to do on the beach..
Dropped the bunks on the trailer, easy to launch and retrieve.
If you have any specific questions, let me know and I will try to answer them.
Murray |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
09/06/2004 8:37 AM Pacific Time
Murray, glad to know it worked out for you. No, no specific questions, was just curious because I'd never considered what a sailing hull might do with it's primary balllast removed.
Enjoy the time with your kids - it goes by way to quickly!
Peace, Chip |
jonathan bartholomew
San Clemente
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1976 C22
Hull No. 6198
Hailing Port: Dana Point |
02/09/2018 1:24 PM Pacific Time
Murray,
Sorry to bump such an old thread... Did you ever notice adverse effects from your keel removal? Did she remain stable? I recently found a C22 shell (no mast, no rigging, nothing) and I would like to remove the cast iron keel and switch to internal ballast. I came across this thread. Please let me know if you can. Thank you!!
Jon |
