Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
 06/14/2004 6:41 PM Pacific Time
My 82 Cat22 has two cockpit drains that lead to a T connection near the winch tubing, and then, to a thru bottom tube w/a lever handle to open and close it from the sea water. I tore the system apart, as much as possible, cleaned out the cockpit drains, tubes, and the T connector. Also, poked a bit thru the thru hull area. Water was coming up thru that tube and into the boat. I put the things back together and thought it was fixed, but the drains still do not drain...Suggestions? Thanks a lot! Linda |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
06/15/2004 9:29 AM Pacific Time
How about making sure the valve is open? If you tore teh system apart and cleaned out all the tubes I don't know what could be the problem. I like to take a piece of copper wire and run it down each drain to clean it out.
Robert |
David J. Pierce
Sunset, Louisiana
Boat Name: Little Miracles
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No. 12822
Hailing Port: Cypermort Point, Louisiana |
06/16/2004 6:17 AM Pacific Time
It appears you still have a clog in the through hull fitting or at the opening beneath the boat. It also appears you are trying to clear the clog in the through hull while in the water. Clearing the hoses between the drains and the T is easy. Clearing the clog in the through hull is difficult to do with the boat in the water. The clog may be acting like a check valvue. It will let water flow up into the boat but closes up when trying to get water to run down.
You can attach a short hose above the cut-off to allow you to fully open the valve without water running into the boat. This will allow you to used a coat hanger to be used to rotor-root the through hull with the valve open. |
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/16/2004 10:38 PM Pacific Time
David,
I think that your idea is the one I was waiting for. I thought about making that through hull to extend above the water line, but I don't know the diameter of that connection.
I did call the tech support in CA and that fellow said that if i were working on it 'in the water', I should pull it out to do that kind of work.. Also, suggested a 'scupper kit' which was also one of my ideas even tho it wouldn't drain the cockpit completely, it would keep the water from running into the cabin area in case of an emergency.
Thanks!
Linda
Havre de Grace, MD |
Austin Cooley
Honeoye Falls, NY
Boat Name: Wings of the Morning
Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1983
Hull No. 11602
Hailing Port: Keuka Lake, Branchport, NY |
06/17/2004 6:16 PM Pacific Time
I had the same problem this year. I flush the scuppers with a garden hose while the boat is still on the trailer in the driveway. Everything was fine. Once in the water, and after a big rain, I had several inches of water in the cockpit. I tried wire, blowing, etc. I was able to get to a garden hose at the marina and flush it out again. Everything was fine after that.
Austn Cooley
Wings of the Morning 11602 |
Jim Johnstone
Austin, TX
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Lake Travis, TX |
06/17/2004 8:25 PM Pacific Time
I have a small plunger on my boat. When the drains are not draining I cover one with my foot and use the plunger on the other one. This has always cleared my drains.
Jim |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
06/18/2004 7:03 AM Pacific Time
I have a small wet & dry vacuum on my boat it does an excellent job of sucking up plugged drains & cleaning the cabin & bilges.
In a more radical move when doing a bottom job last year I moved the drain from the keel winch area to the stern above the water line on the boot stripe. This has eliminated any worries of galley water or bilge flooding due to heeling or underwater leaks. The drainage has been better without any hydrostatic resistance, draining only to atmosphere.
http://f1.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/te_quest/detail?.dir=/50aa&.dnm=c513.jpg
|
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/18/2004 10:22 PM Pacific Time
I will try the Garden Hose method since the boat is already in the water. Did the plunger thing and the T valve was too clogged for that to work. (Pupae, larvae, debris, etc.).
I am planning to run a thru hull in the stern, but that will not completely drain the cockpit as the fore part of the pit is lower than the stern area. At least it will keep the water from overflowing into the cabin. All the cabin and bilge areas are dry as a bone, at present. I don't want to mess that up!
Still welcoming any additional suggestions. I thank all of you fellow sailors for your input. Really much appreciated. Linda |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
06/19/2004 10:02 AM Pacific Time
Linda.
I am a trailer Sailor and every time before I sail I run a simple coat hanger up the scupper hole from the bottom of the boat. Since you are already launched I would suggest pouring a little bleach in the scupper drain opening at the cockpit. That will clear up any growth such as algae or mildew and make a bug wish for better days. Then try the dock hose plug one side of the cockpit scuper drain and let her rip! |
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/19/2004 10:18 AM Pacific Time
OK, Bob, I had been wondering about killing any growth. This is the Cheaspeake Bay we are talking about, but sometimes you gotta' do what you gotta' do! Will give that a whirl today and hose it tomorrow.
Previous owner hauled the boat after each 'fresh water' adventure. I don't. It's in salt water (brine) and in the Fall, look out, the weeds are so thick, some of us are slipbound. Illegal to kill or cut the weeds per DNR. Duh. |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
06/20/2004 9:28 AM Pacific Time
Linda,
One more suggestion. As a prior Long Island Sailor (long Ago)
Replace your scupper drain hose with a clear hose. It may be purchased at Home Depot for $2. You will then be able to inspect the drain field to the Scupper drain visually. of coarse shut the valve before replacing, after tightening fill with bleach and open the valve the bleach with kill the remaining garbage in the valve out to the drain hole at the boats bottom.
Must be fun knowing you're trailing all that debri with the keel down!? |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
06/20/2004 6:33 PM Pacific Time
Linda,
I have the rear scuppers & an additional drain at the boot stripe 10 inches below the cock pit floor. I glassed in my keel drain when doing my bottom job & lazer shot the aft section to determine the 10 inch drop. That lets the froward drains be in the open air most of the time unless aft waves are splashing. On my galley drain I just added a five gallon tank for drain capture.
Hope this helps,
Cheers,
Bob |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
06/21/2004 4:16 AM Pacific Time
Thanks Bob for the location of the transom drain for the existing cockpit drains.
I have been amazed at how well my standard drains seem to work since I've installed a scupper in the transom! ;)
|
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/21/2004 11:05 AM Pacific Time
Hello, again. Well, I did the Clorox thing for 24 hours, hooked up the hose at the marina, had a friend put her heel over the one drain and I stuck the hose as tightly as I could, into (against) the other drain and fired away...We got wet, the drain didn't open, so methinks that the obstruction is more serious than growths. Funny thing is, that when the T connector is removed, water does seep up thru the thru hull, so I am wondering if I got a funnel w/sides high enuf to be above the water line, (3--4"?), if I could just stick that nozzle in the scupper, hold it tight agst the scup, wiggle my coat hanger down it and hope it will clear..?? If I knew how to haul the boat, I'd just pull it out and do it, but I am new and always had the dockmaster step the mast and launch it. Gotta' love the guy. Don't have the guts to ask him to do this, too. He's very busy.
Sorry to be so long winded about this, but Bob, when you glassed in your drain hole at the keel and put the 10" drop scupper in to the boot line, how did you do that? I am trying to visualize it. Thanks! Linda |
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/21/2004 11:53 PM Pacific Time
As far as the transom scuppers go, did you buy them at a marine store or can you rig them from pvc at a plumbing supply store or a place like WalMart, Home Depot, etc? Do you use the 4200 sealant or 5200? I understand that 5200 will pull the gelcoat off if you try to remove it after it's cured.
Thanks, LInda |
Bob Keim
Nashville
Boat Name: Pursuit
Model/Year: C22/1976
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Nashville |
06/22/2004 4:21 AM Pacific Time
Linda, I used a Perko 'plastic' scupper. I didn't have any 5200 to use on them, so I used some cheapo silicon sealant I had laying around. I'll redo them with 5200 this weekend. I use only 5200 or 4200 for bedding stuff exposed to the elements, as, IMHO, nothing else lasts as long as they do. |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
06/22/2004 7:18 AM Pacific Time
Linda,
I pulled my boat to fix a speed pickup leak in the bow that I glassed in, our boat has a flush toilet so I glassed that into, since I was going no holes I glassed in the keel drain at the same time. “West Systems” has good dialog on glassing in holes & bottom jobs.
There are some picture of my boat & the laser shot in the link below, showing the 10-drop from the scuppers to the water line. I did add a second drain line to the stern, but you can see the original valve & tee in the laser picture. I have one shot that shows the glassed in rear scuppers, glassed in rudder slot – can’t remember what they call that piece of plastic that covers that area, and the bilge pump drain. The forward scupper drain is 8 inched below the bilge drain seen in the picture, the scupper drain is not seen in the picture however looks like the bilge drain. http://photos.yahoo.com/te_quest cut in past or click if my HTML works.
http://photos.yahoo.com/te_quest
With your scupper drain valve closed, you can remove all of your hoses, the tee, & confirm all of them are opened. The top of your valve should be at near water level, you could open it & see if it bleeds back on you, or if it is opened above the water line you have a straight shot to the bottom of the boat with your coat hanger clean out.
By memory, the water line & the top of the valve should be close. A big guy like me probably puts the top of the value below the water line, #260. You could remove everything & put a temporary pipe on to the keel winch hose pipe level to be sure you could open the valve & clean it out with out worrying about water coming in the cabin.
I would be extremely careful doing any of this work on the water. The glassed in bronze pipes inside of the glassed volcanoes will turn & leak. In addition, many of the valves will break open in the middle for repairs, always backup on top of the valve with no side-to-side stress if you remove the tee. If you have a strong dock a line run under the stern & to both sides of the dock might keep the boat safe while doing these repairs.
Cheers,
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059
Over Keel
|
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/23/2004 12:10 AM Pacific Time
Bob,
Thanks for the photos which I will look at tomorrow. My browser address box 'disappeared'?, so I will put that address in the search and see what comes up.
Thought of supporting the stern area w/strong line, too, but not sure our pier is set up to attempt that. I could put about 10 cinder blocks on the bow...ha.
Guess I got lucky when I used a wrench to loosen the T..I can turn it w/out a wrench, now, but am leery. Will go with just putting the drain in the transom for the time being.
Later, will do the other 'stuff'. I am getting antsy to get out on the water before the end of summer!!! |
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/23/2004 12:15 AM Pacific Time
PS: I, too, got a plastic Perko scupper, but it is threaded for only 2 inches and the flange that would screw on the outside of it wouldn't catch the threads, so I am trying to make something longer w/pvc... |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
06/23/2004 5:45 AM Pacific Time
Linda,
Have you got a mask and fins? The water is getting warm enough for a swim. Get yourself a coat hanger, dive under your boat and look for the scupper drain hole. It is located just behind the swing keel when fully retracted. Jam the coat hanger inside the hole in a twisting motion. You will feel it stop at the clog just keep pushing and twisting until you feel it give way and travel further. You will have then cleared the clog you couldn't clear from top side. Have a good swim! :^).> |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
06/23/2004 6:25 AM Pacific Time
Linda,
To redo the forward drain, I just used a typical bilge pump threaded discharge from Perko for my aft drain & reused the tee so I could have double drain lines lead aft. The transom is about ¾ inch thick so have a good hole saw. If I were redoing mine, I would place it above the boot stripe instead of on the stripe just for looks. I let my hoses drop to the bilge level going aft so there is about an 18 drop at the scuppers & that part does hold water in the hoses as they go up to the discharge. Just like a water leveler hose, they always discharge to level.
On my aft scuppers, I glassed in plywood in between the transom & the cockpit liner. The cockpit liner is very thin & there is a gap between the transom & the liner of about ¼ inch. By memory I cut about 6”X6” pieces of plywood maybe ¼ inch or less thick & wrapped them with fiberglass cloth & epoxy & jammed them in & let them dry. This is a two-person project, I did mine from the outside, but it would be easier to have someone inside the aft hull section to measure & jam the pieces in place. After the wood inserts dried, I put metal A/C tape inside the cockpit where I would be drilling & holding the hole saw & drill upside down cut my holes at floor level. After my pilot bit was exposed aft, I finished drilling from outside the boat. I used painter’s tape over the hole areas to protect the gel coat while drilling. After I finished, I glassed in the holes with epoxy & painted.
The CD kit uses the same procedure except instead of glassing in they have brass inserts & a tool to flare the brass. The CD kit is probably better & stronger than glassing or using the PVC method. PVC & fiberglass do not bond too well & there is a lot of stress on the cockpit floor & the transom from the backstay. No matter what method you use I would try to put in the plywood inserts to make it a solid hole without that thin cockpit piece exposed to any singular stress.
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059
Over Keel
|
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/23/2004 10:57 PM Pacific Time
Well, guess what? When at the marina this evening, one of the employees stopped my truck to tell me that he is going to clear the thru hull for me tomorrow. He said that the dock master told him to clear it out today, but he had no key.
So, the key is there, now, and I am a happy camper.
Bill V,. I am going to print your instructions as to how to do the thing 'right'. For now, if the original drains work, I am tickled pink, mask, fins, goggles or not!!!!! Thank you all! I will be back, you can bet on it....If not for this, for something else. Great crew, you guys! Thanks again for all suggestions! |
Harald Thannhauser
Calgary, AB Canada
Boat Name:
Model/Year: C22 1979
Hull No. 8266
Hailing Port: Glenmore |
08/14/2004 5:39 PM Pacific Time
Bob'
Thank you so much for the time and energy you have put into your explanations. I really like your idea of routing the existing cockpit drains aft - especially when I saw the degree to which the floor is sloped forward on mine.
Q: in your photo of the below aft cockpit shoing the lazer - can you explain the routing of the black hose, and what is that silver thing that the black hose goes to and exits from.
Harald |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
08/15/2004 6:43 PM Pacific Time
Harold,
The black hose in the picture goes to the silver/grey manual bilge pump; I have a small electric bilge pump plumbed thru the manual pump as well in the bilge. I leave the boat slipped & saw a boat near by sink due to a thru hull leak, thus my aversion to thru hull connections.
If I were redoing the project, today I would set the drain a little higher & make them out of bigger hose & connections. Like the thru hull drain, they are a little slow to drain. They have never plugged & are easy to flush out with everything above water level.
Cheers,
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059
Over Keel
|
Harald Thannhauser
Calgary, AB Canada
Boat Name:
Model/Year: C22 1979
Hull No. 8266
Hailing Port: Glenmore |
08/20/2004 6:52 AM Pacific Time
Bob,
Thanks for the explanation. Since seeing your modification I did some looking through West Marine's parts and thought of combining: Forespar Cockpit Drain with Strainer-11/2" hose size, Marelon Mushroom head barbed thru-hull -11/2" size, and Bilgeflex Hose 11/2".
Can you give me your thoughts on this choice and - could you suggest a measurement (up from the bottom of the hull) on the transom where you would put the drain hole?
I really like this idea of cokpit drainage. I had tried the CD route first but shipping the tool to Canada and back became too cost prohibitive - so getting a little bit of platic shipped is sweet!
Harald |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
08/22/2004 8:50 AM Pacific Time
Harold,
My first sailing experience was on Lake Glenmore after my Saturday delivery of the Calgary Herald at age 12 one fall day back in the 1960’s. My friends boat was a home built plywood design, he called a Scot. We used to live just across the road from Heritage Park.
I just measured the foreword aft cockpit discharge location & it was 8 ½ to the left of the rudder gudgeon, if the hole were parallel to the lower gudgeon, it would be higher & dryer than mine still draining well. Mine is at the boot stripe & is under water when sailing full crew. When she is slipped, the drain is about 2 inches out of the water & the gudgeon is about 3 inches clear with my 2780-pound C-22.
Since my boat is hanging on straps, I did not crawl inside to measure the hoses. I am touching up the keel & bottom. It seems they are ½ inch or ¾. I would be careful about going all the way to 1-¼ inch piping/hose. It seems I had to trim under the forward drains when I used the Forspar thru hulls for drains. I think the easiest would be 2 each; ¾ drains that tee into a single 1-inch hose running aft. I used a forespar valve at the stern thru hull discharge.
I drilled with an extra long pilot bit in my hole-saw from the inside first to insure clearance for the external drain valve. Then I taped off the outside & drilled in the exposed pilot hole. After drilling the hole I had room to coat the ¾ deep transom hole with a few coats of epoxy, before bedding the thru hull valve with life calk. I was thinking a ruler across the gudgeon nuts inside would give you an up & down orientation. Make sure you have room to work your valve & can access it from the fuel locker.
Inside the cockpit I just drilled thru / around the bronze pipe in the volcano with a hole saw. Then I removed the pipe & leveled the lower drain sealing area with a hacksaw blade & filed it smooth with a horseshoe file. I did not see any of the ¾ inch cockpit deck plywood during this operation so I just bedded the drains with life caulk, incased in glass. If wood were exposed, I would coat with epoxy to prevent rot. (One of the top boats in the US has a soft floor due to water penetration – as per the owner.)
A shop vacuum running near this entire cutting process makes for less itching later. A wipe down of talcum power before working fills up the pores to prevent fiberglass intrusion.
Cheer,
Bob
|
Harald Thannhauser
Calgary, AB Canada
Boat Name:
Model/Year: C22 1979
Hull No. 8266
Hailing Port: Glenmore |
08/30/2004 9:18 PM Pacific Time
Bob - what a cool connection! ... our C22 is parked at the Heritage Park boat lot ... and I too delivered the Herald in the mid 60's.
Thanks so much for your feedback. I plan to follow up on it.
Full sails to ya'!
Harald |
Nick. I.
Jamestown, Rhode Island
Boat Name: Morning Glory
Model/Year: C-22 / 83
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Dutch Harbor, Jamestown R.I. |
06/04/2006 4:42 AM Pacific Time
Folks,
I recently purchased a 83 C-22 in exceptional shape. We put her in last week and all seems OK. Unfortunately, it has rained for days here in the N.E. I have been worried about the scuppers and have viewed all the discussions. I am going to go out to the boat today to check, I hope the new electric bilge pump and new battery have performed, just in case the scuppers have not!
As a new sailor and new to sailboats I appreciate the discussion however, I am now sufficiently terrified! It appears that the previous owner replaced the valve with the composite type I am not sure about the through the hull nipple? Does it make sense to redirect the stock scuppers out through a new hole above the water line if possible? I would like to go the season with out hauling the boat, todays visit will answer some of the questions. Any guidance for a novice would be appreciated, thanks. |
Lee Scott
Birmingham, AL
Boat Name: Shoot the Breeze
Model/Year: C22 - 1981
Hull No. 10212
Hailing Port: Lay Lake |
06/05/2006 6:56 AM Pacific Time
Nick,
I think it's a great idea, and one I'll add to my list of projects for my boat as well. Even with the best design, though, the scuppers can still clog up. All it takes is a couple of leaves or a piece of paper large enough to cover the drain to blow into the cockpit.
The stern scuppers installed in the transom are a great insurance policy in case that happens, so I'd have them too. |
Mark Allan
Nanaimo, BC Canada
Boat Name: Idle Hour
Model/Year: C22
Hull No. 4579
Hailing Port: Deep Bay |
07/06/2006 9:05 PM Pacific Time
Have had problems with the drains repeatedly "clogging". My solution - don't raise the swing keel all the way at dock, the drain exits the hull right on top of the keel. Any little bit of foreign material seems to get stuck there and block it. Haven't had any problems since I started leaving the keel down 2 or 3 turns. |
