Garrett
Phoenix, AZ
Boat Name: "Sting"
Model/Year: C22 1974
Hull No. 3627
Hailing Port: Lake Pleasant, AZ |
 07/18/2004 8:14 AM Pacific Time
Hey,
I have a 1994 Toyota P/U with 4cyl engine. The manual says it can tow 3500#.....but I am skeptical...
I am looking at launching and recovering a C-22 on a steep boatramp with it (Boat would be dry stored at the lake), and wonder how well it would do this job...
Any words of wisdom?
No, I can't/don't want to afford a new truck....
THX
Garrett
Phoenix, AZ |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
07/18/2004 9:35 AM Pacific Time
Hey!
Not a chance!!! |
Mark Dierker
Columbia, Mo
Boat Name: Norma Jean
Model/Year: c22/1977
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
07/18/2004 10:26 AM Pacific Time
Is the truck 4WD? If so I'd think that 4 low would move things around pretty well. I've got a Toyota 4x4 that I am confident would do it just fine (up and down a ramp) I'd be afraid with 2wd on a steep ramp though. |
Paul David
Melbourne Australia
Boat Name: Reflections
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13369
Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia |
07/19/2004 12:21 AM Pacific Time
Here's a somewhat related thought - If you did find yourself burning rubber on the ramp with a 2WD trying to retrieve your boat, my guess is that it would make sense to let some air out of your (drive wheel) tyres... Anybody concur? |
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22 '76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
07/19/2004 6:31 AM Pacific Time
If you can put enough tongue weight on the truck it should be able to pull it in and out. I had a Ford Aerostar panel van and had to put weight in the back end to get traction, sometimes two people would sit in there for me. In low gear you can get get a lot of pull if you have traction. At highway speeds is where you will be power limited, at least I was with the little 6 cylinder, I just drove 40-50 mph.
For what it's worth, Al Ge |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
07/19/2004 6:58 AM Pacific Time
I have a Jeep Cherokee that I "used" to pull my boat with. That all stopped when I backed
down a wet ramp and could not get the boat and Jeep to stop. I nearly jack knifed into the
boat and truclk next to me. If the vehicle is too light you have to be very careful. I would only haul with a vehicle that weighs nearly as much as the boat. |
Garrett P
Yelm, WA
Boat Name: Kikachu
Model/Year: c22/1972
Hull No. 1270
Hailing Port: Olympia |
07/19/2004 9:42 AM Pacific Time
Hey, I have used my 1985 Toyota 4-runner 4cyl to launch and recover my 1972 c-22 from a step ramp without a problem. I have done it in 2wd in first and pulled the boat the 1/2 mile2 to the dry storage yard (I would sail her 3-5 days a week), however, Its much better in 4 low 2nd gear and its no sweat even at low low tide. As far as towing anywhere else? Yes, I have towed it around but its not my choice of tow vehicals.
Garrett |
david martin
hutchinson island fl
Boat Name: barefoot gourmet
Model/Year: cat 22 1977
Hull No. 7942 (?)
Hailing Port: Hutchinsom Island Fl |
07/19/2004 11:43 AM Pacific Time
the other question is transmission I would recomend automatic since you can feed the power without slipping the clutch my V6 toyota did ok up to about 60 mph but not much reserve for passing and hills |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
07/19/2004 8:14 PM Pacific Time
Garrett, of course it all depends on your definition of steep but, Yeah the Toyota will most likely do it. I've had a couple of them and have a strong respect for the truck. In my 40 years of launching and retrieving boats I've never had a problem with spinning my Tires; but yes Paul your trick of lowering the "tyre" pressure is an old dune buggy trick to gain traction. Give it a try. |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
07/20/2004 7:42 AM Pacific Time
Just an FYI on the automatic transmission. It is smoother, and easier on your legs.
But when you "feed it power", you are actually slipping the clutches (a pack of clutch rings in each gear). This is why automakers recommend an transmission oil cooler when towing. Heat builds up quickly when the clutch packs slip, as they must do to give you the smooth feel you're used to from automatics.
Also, please never stand on a slope using the automatic transmission to hold the vehicle still. This is also slipping the clutch packs and shortening the life of the transmission. Take your foot off the gas and use the brake to hold you, and the transmission will release the pressure holding the packs together, thus cooling the clutches. |
Buff Decker
Scottsdale, AZ
Boat Name: Princess
Model/Year: 1982
Hull No. 11333
Hailing Port: Lake Pleasant, AZ |
08/23/2004 12:30 PM Pacific Time
Everyone who joined this conversation above has dealt with the towing ability of the vehicle. The initial premise said the towing ability was 3500#. That might be the capacity for the hitch.
I have a V6 Explorer with the minimal 3500# hitch (and I believe, 300# tongue weight limit). I do not intend to tow the boat on the open road, just from dry storage to the ramp and back. With a 900-1000# single axle trailer and a 2500# C-22, I am at the limit. Does anyone else launch their boat with the small capacity hitch? |
paul osborne
Lima NY
Boat Name: Emy Lyn II
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Rochester |
08/23/2004 1:48 PM Pacific Time
My 2 cents- I used to dry launch/sail on a paved ramp using a Ford Ranger std trans 4 cycl engine and the step bumper for the ball. Launched the boat and recovered it and parked it in the lot about 100yds from the ramp. I never towed on the road. I now tow with a
4wd Ranger auto 4L 6cycl and use a class 3 hitch frame hitch. works fine. Now I am not one of those towers that is going 65-70 and has to pass every one. |
Jim Holliday
Siloam Springs, Arkansas
Boat Name: Gandalf
Model/Year: Cat 22/74
Hull No. 3436
Hailing Port: Grand Lake/NE Oklahoma |
08/24/2004 6:18 AM Pacific Time
I have a 88 Dodge Dakota 4 cyl, standard transmission and it will not pull my boat out. |
Bob Keim
Nashville
Boat Name: Pursuit
Model/Year: C22/1976
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Nashville |
08/24/2004 6:54 AM Pacific Time
I towed a 3000 pound race car/trailer pachage 45 miles one way to the race track for over 2 years with a 4 cylinder Trooper. I towed my boat with that Trooper too. I took it to Kentucky Lake three or 4 times and around town. As you know, Tennessee has some hills. The steepest hill required me to drop into 3rd great and climb at about 45 mph. Big deal, some big trucks still got in my way!
It took 250,000 miles of this type of driving to wear out the motor. The truck still had the original clutch in it. I think someone who knows how to drive a truck with a trailer can do a lot with a small tow truck.... and it sure was a joy to back up!
I do caution anyone pulling a boat to look far ahead and plan their braking needs!
BTW, my boat and trailer weighed 3,340 pounds at the truck scales on my way home from picking it up. The dual axle trailer weighs 705 pounds by itself. |
Bob Keim
Nashville
Boat Name: Pursuit
Model/Year: C22/1976
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Nashville |
08/24/2004 7:03 AM Pacific Time
Yes, it was a 4WD and I always used 4 wheel low at the ramp to make it easier on the clutch. |
Arno Marcuse
Chandler, Az
Boat Name: Baltic Son
Model/Year: C-22 1984
Hull No. 12004
Hailing Port: Lake Pleasant |
08/24/2004 7:40 AM Pacific Time
Hey Garrett,
As long as the engine is healthy you should do ok. If not you'll know.. I also had a trooper and dragged my boat up the Lake Pleasant ramps... when the third of four cylinders got weak I had to stop. w/ 175,000 miles. No worries.. Try it.. if it doesn't work go shopping... |
Buff Decker
Scottsdale, AZ
Boat Name: Princess
Model/Year: 1982
Hull No. 11333
Hailing Port: Lake Pleasant, AZ |
08/24/2004 2:52 PM Pacific Time
Thanks for all the responses, but you guys are missing my question. I am not concerned about the power of my Explorer to tow the boat up the ramp. I am concerned that I have the smallest hitch, rated at 3,500 pounds maximum, which is the approximate weight of the boat and trailer, and is anyone else launching a C-22 with a similar hitch. The Exlorer is a 2002 model, so the hitch is mounted to the frame. It is not one of the ball-on-the-bumper type hitches that Ford put on earlier model Explorers.
Again, will the hitch stay on the frame when I haul the maximum load. I hope I made this clear, because I do not want to find out it won't the hard way. Thanks for your help.
Buff |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
08/24/2004 5:22 PM Pacific Time
Buff, can I assume your 3500# hitch has the smaller receiver tube, around 1-1/4" square?
I towed a lot of things with that size hitch in the '80's with no problem, including a 7000# powerboat fron NC to upstate NY. But then someone told me that you generally have no warning before the welds fail and you should always include a safety factor in hitch size..
Since then, I've put the larger frame hitch on all of my subsequent towing vehicles.
According to the manual for our current Hyundai Santa Fe, it can tow 4200 lbs, and should have a 5000 lb.+ hitch to do it. That's what we got.
Chip Lee |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
08/24/2004 9:29 PM Pacific Time
Yes and I've pulled a 4500# Tollycraft cabin cruiser with a 66 Chevelle and a ton of hay on a 66 Toyota but that doesn't make it right, safe or protect you from a lawsuit. The answer for you lies in the owners manual for your car and the specs that came with your hitch. Also be advised that somewhere in your Explorer's manual will probably be a disclaimer if you don't have brakes on your trailer. People, like it or not we live in a sue happy society and you need all the protection you can get. |
paul osborne
Lima NY
Boat Name: Emy Lyn II
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Rochester |
08/25/2004 5:41 AM Pacific Time
I would convert to a class 3 hitch. |
Stephen Yingst
Glen Ellen, California
Boat Name: Third Flight
Model/Year: C22 - 1988
Hull No. 14644
Hailing Port: Sausalito |
08/26/2004 8:08 AM Pacific Time
On the other hand, he is only talking about driving up and down a ramp and parking in the dry storage. Many people do that with the trailer extension fully out and nothing bad happens. Obviously it wouldn't be a good road set-up, but jeeze, let's save the man some extra expense. |
Mike Trimble
Arlington, VA
Boat Name: Colleen II
Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1989
Hull No. CTYH4939A989
Hailing Port: Mayo, MD |
02/03/2005 6:40 PM Pacific Time
I've been reading a lot about pickups and SUVs and even a cargo van for pulling out our beloved Catalina 22s, but has anyone ever used or heard of someone using a mini-van? I store my boat on dry about 100yds from the ramp and recently was forced down to one vehicle (through an accident) from a Ford Explorer to a Plymouth Grand Voyager. I'm not sure what all the specs are at the moment, but I'm fairly certain it's got enough power to do the job. Any comments? I'll post the specs of the van later.
- Mike
|
Joe McElroy
Snoqualmie, Washington
Boat Name: Teasel
Model/Year: 1979 Swing Keel
Hull No. 9014
Hailing Port: |
02/04/2005 12:12 AM Pacific Time
The biggest issue with the Caravan is the transmission. It is partially a matter of heat, partially slippage, and partially because people don't keep the fluid clean with the proper type. Here is one link on the problem.
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
I would use a leveling hitch with any front wheel drive van for doing much towing to keep more weight on the drive wheels.
We have been using an Astro van for towing our C22 for years. We have an auxiliary transmission cooler on it. It does just fine. Lots of towing probably would shorten the life of this transmission as well.
Joe |
Joe McElroy
Snoqualmie, Washington
Boat Name: Teasel
Model/Year: 1979 Swing Keel
Hull No. 9014
Hailing Port: |
02/04/2005 12:21 AM Pacific Time
Mike,
I just noticed that you said you were only towing 100 yards. That is quite a different story. Doing this only occasionally is certainly not much problem. If I were doing that with a front drive van, I might think about a hitch in front for more traction. That said, some transmissions, like the Astro are easily damaged with high loads in reverse gear, I don't know about yours. Our Astro is all-wheel-drive, so traction is never a problem.
Joe |
Mike Leger #14198
Naperville, IL
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
02/04/2005 8:07 AM Pacific Time
I have the 98 Chrysler Town and Country.
Which I have towed the C22 across the turnpikes from Cleveland to Chicago and later to halfway up Michigan and back as well as around Chicagoland. Of course the trailer has safety chains and hydraulic surge brakes. I believe I have the 3500# hitch with 2" ball.
It has the 3.8 liter engine front-wheel drive only. Tire slipping can happen (not always) but is controllable. Usually I have to back down far enough that the rear axels are almost covered and the exhaust pipe starts to gurgle.
Small hills are ok but I wouldn't (couldn't) cross the Rockies or Appalachians. There are a few hills in WI and MI that I would also avoid.
There was a thread a year or so back about tongue extensions and such or using a rope. There's some good info there. But you should be able to find a way to get in and out and dry store the boat in between. |
Mike Trimble
Mayo, MD
Boat Name: Colleen II
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
02/04/2005 12:30 PM Pacific Time
Here are the specs on my Plymouth Grand-Voyager mini-van according to Vehix.com
SUV specifics approach angle (degrees): 16.3 and departure angle (degrees): 17.8 (I don't know what this means ... can anyone translate ???)
Weights: gross vehicle weight rating (lbs) 5,360, curb weight (lbs) 3,812, gross trailer weight braked (lbs) 2,000, front axle weight (lbs) 2,746, rear axle weight (lbs) 2,746 and max payload (lbs) 1,538
Performance:
3,301 cc 3.3 liters V 6 front transverse engine with 93 mm bore, 81 mm stroke, 8.9 compression ratio, cast iron block, light alloy head, overhead valve and two valves per cylinder
3.62:1 axle ratio
According to these specs, it doesn't sound like the van can handle launching and retrieving my Cat22 wing-keel. Anyone agree/disagree ??? |
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
02/04/2005 3:17 PM Pacific Time
Last year we had a thread here about the vehicles pulled to the water at the ramp by the weight of C22. It was quite fascinating to read those stories. Only to read.
If the ramp was really shallow I would take the risk and I'm assuming we're talking about 100 yard distance to tow. Good luck.
"Spirit" #13485 |
Larry
Greenville, SC
Boat Name: Kemo Sabe
Model/Year: C-22 , 1973
Hull No. 2229
Hailing Port: www.keoweesailingclub.com |
02/05/2005 7:09 AM Pacific Time
Mike,
Your car will launch/retrieve your boat. Do you sail it off the trailer or have a slip? Just don't overheat the transmission on the road as it may shorten the length of the life. Probably needs a bit more motor for long hauls.
I have seen many with the 4.3 Chevy and 4.0 L explorers doing just fine with a C-22. Can't think of anyone who uses an auto like yours, however.
Larry |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
02/05/2005 1:28 PM Pacific Time
Mike,
Re:"SUV specifics approach angle (degrees): 16.3 and departure angle (degrees): 17.8 (I don't know what this means ... can anyone translate ???)"
This basically tell you how steep an angle you can enteror exit from without the front or rear of the car touching the ground. It's useful for off-roaders to compare SUVs' capabilities for negotiating really rough terrain, but for the rest of us, we only notice such things when we "bottom out" going into or out of a steep driveway ramp.
It sounds like your van is borderline for towing a C22 any great distance. With weekend gear, I estimate ours is a tad over 3000 lbs GVW. But for 100yard hauls it should work, assuming you don't have a steep, slippery ramp. Go slow the first time you try it - lighter vehicles can get dragged in by the momentum of the boat and trailor.
Chip Lee
Chip Lee
|
Mike Bracket
Clinton Twp, MI
Boat Name: Gunsmoke
Model/Year: 1979
Hull No. 9150
Hailing Port: Lake St Clair MI |
02/06/2005 7:21 AM Pacific Time
T reailered my C22 for years with a Ford Ranger Pick up. 3.0L engine and 3.73 gears. 5 speed manual with a step bumper hitch.
When the old girl got over 180K miles, I decided to buy a Ford 150 to tow the boat and now just use the old truck in the winter time to drive to work.
I have heard a LOT of storied about the mini-van transmissions so I would be cautious when traveling any distance but back and forth to the ramp a few times each year should be fine. |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
04/30/2005 7:04 PM Pacific Time
I just towed a C22 750 miles to North Carolina with a Chevy Astro AWD (4.3L 6 cylinder engine, 190 HP, and 250 ft.lb. torque, rated for 5000lb trailer w/towing package). I was able to do 65mph on the flats (any more and it started to sway). There were a couple of hills in Pennsylvania where the van shifted to 3rd and slowed down to 50 mph, but otherwise the Astro did a fine job.
If I were to buy a new tow vehicle, I'd consider a little more HP. |
Joe McElroy
Snoqualmie, Washington
Boat Name: Teasel
Model/Year: 1979 Swing Keel
Hull No. 9014
Hailing Port: |
05/01/2005 9:44 AM Pacific Time
Our tow vehicle is also a 94 Astro All Wheel Drive with 195,000 miles, original engine and automatic transmission (going strong, never burns oil). It is wonderful on slippery ramps. I have never had any doubts about traction. Ours will sway with the motor on the boat, but with the motor in the back of the van, it tows beautifully at any speed (I've had it up to 75 or so). In other words, it is important to have enough weight on your hitch. I've never felt like power is a problem, and we go over Snoqualmie pass on I-90 in Washington State, which is 2984 feet. I select 2nd gear for this hill and keep the speed down to 45 MPH. It is important to have an auxiliary transmission cooler for warm weather on any vehicle I have heard of if it has an automatic. |
