Jack Kernel Miami
Boat Name: Any
Model/Year: Any
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
08/03/2004 8:41 AM Pacific Time
Like to have all your experienced opinions.
What are the pros and cons of purchasing a new 4-stroke 8HP versus 5HP Honda with alternator for a C - 22' Wing-Keel boat ?
Thanks, Jack K.
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Artur Piotrowski Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
08/03/2004 1:05 PM Pacific Time
First, I have C22 swing keel (yours is wing keel) but I don't think that difference should play a big role. Second, did you mean you have 2 choices:
1 - new Honda, 8HP, 4 stroke, no alternator
2 - new Honda, 5HP, 4 stroke, with alternator?
If that's true I would go with choice #2. Alternator is a very nice feature and you don't really need 8HP to push your C22. More than that, even if both are with alternators or not, you're going to save money with 5HP and have less weight on the transom.
I recently purchased Nissan 5HP, 4 stroke from 2002. It pushes my C22 at the hull speed at half trottle (maybe 60%). Its weight is below 60 lbs. I love it. Good luck.
-Spirit #13485 |
Jack Kernel Miami
Boat Name: Any
Model/Year: Any
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
08/03/2004 6:34 PM Pacific Time
Yes, both choices with an alternator.
My main concern is to be able to make headway against the rushing tide, strong currents and heavy winds. That is without having to run the motor at full trottle.
My only route out to the Ocean is through Baker's Haulover Cut in North Miami.
It is known for it's nasty, treacherous and unforgiving rushing tides.
Jack K. |
Artur Piotrowski Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
08/04/2004 6:03 AM Pacific Time
Jack, your boat hull speed is about 6 knots and that's all you can get even if you put 15HP outboard on the transom. Going against the rushing tide, strong currents, you still can go max 6 knots relative to the water. Larger outboard will be helpfull in heavy winds but it's not going to help you to beat the current. That's how I got my Nissan 5HP, previous owner bought 8HP Yamaha to help him through the rushing tide. New, larger engine didn't make any difference. Good luck.
-Spirit #13485 |
Jack Kernel Miami
Boat Name: Any
Model/Year: Any
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
08/04/2004 7:57 AM Pacific Time
Artur: Thanks for the logical advise. It does make a lot of sense. While we are on the subject; Please give me your opinion; whether or not the Honda’s 8HP electric start feature would worse to spend the extra money on considering the motor’s additional weight compared to the weight of the 5HP Honda? (As my understanding is, that the Honda 5HP is not available with the electric start.) |
Artur Piotrowski Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
08/04/2004 8:07 AM Pacific Time
I don't know Jack. My Nissan starts from the first pull. I guess, it would be nice to have electric start but you'll have to decide. That's your money. Good luck.
-Spirit #13485 |
Dan Graczyk Port Townsend, WA
Boat Name: Cheers
Model/Year: 1989
Hull No. 14994
Hailing Port: Discovery Bay |
08/04/2004 12:03 PM Pacific Time
Jack,
I have a wing keel and a 5 horse Honda 4 stroke without an alternator. The motor is great... starts first pull.... uses very little gas and moves the boat along at hull speed at about mid throttle. I have a solar panel that trickle charges my battery and it has kept the charge up very well. I haven't priced the cost of solar trickle charging versus alternator, but the solar thing works good for me.
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Al Gearing Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22 '76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
08/04/2004 1:59 PM Pacific Time
I hate to differ with Jack, but hull speed is the knee of the curve. That is, with a linear increase in motor RPM, boat speed will increase at a linear rate too. When you reach what is called hull-speed, the rate of increase is no longer linear, but it will increase. It may take only 4 hp to push you at hull-speed in calm water, but it may require 8hp to do hull-speed in heavy seas. If you have swift tides alot of the time, I would opt for the larger motor.
For what it's worth, Al Ge |
Stephen Yingst Glen Ellen, California
Boat Name: Third Flight
Model/Year: C22 - 1988
Hull No. 14644
Hailing Port: Sausalito |
08/04/2004 2:29 PM Pacific Time
I'm jumping in with Al. Previous Owner purchaced an 8 horse Nissan for the boat, which I thought was more than necessary. However, there have been times going out the Golden Gate and up the coast that I've been VERY happy to have the extra push (like the time I had to tow my hard dingy several miles full of water, and the occasion that I mis-timed my exit from the bay and was fighting a 6 K flood). It's turned out to be good insurance. Stephen |
PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK
Model/Year: 1990 C22
Hull No.
Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA |
08/05/2004 7:34 AM Pacific Time
Jack:
The Honda 9.9 and the 8 weigh the same (just a different carburetor). I recommend you get the basic (no extras)Honda 9.9 Power Thrust with the longest possible shaft. After lots of research we purchased such a Honda 9.9 Power Thrust a few months ago and just finished two months (831 miles) of ocean testing in a trip to the Bahamas. I give it an A+++++++ for performance!!! We motored in a variety of conditions (some of them pretty radical) and we were never disappointed with its performance! Our purchase replaced our older faithful Johnson 8hp two stroke. The Honda out performs the Johnson 8 without question. The Honda has SIGNIFICANTLY more power and the Power Thrust stops the boat immediately in reverse. The alternator generates 4 - 5 amps at half throttle and almost six amps at higher rpm (we checked it) which is very nice. My 5ft 1inch wife could not manage to get the Johnson out of the tilt position, down to the run position, or started by herself (which we consider important for emergencies) but surprisingly she has no trouble with the bigger Honda. The Honda starts on the first pull most of the time --- if it doesn't it is operator error usually. I expected to notice a big difference with the extra weight on the transom but I noted minimal if any difference. The engine was very fuel efficient. In rough and windy conditions we got between 7.7 and 8 nautical miles to the gallon or burned between .65 and .7 gallons an hour. The increased fuel efficiency allows you to carry less fuel somewhat compensating for the increased weight of the four stroke engine. I would not buy any four stroke without Power Thrust (the performance difference is like night and day).
Then there is always those who argue that you don't need a bigger engine. Well if you are a racer with an empty C22 who is only going from the slip to the race course and then heading for home as soon as the weather pipes up, then all you need is a 4hp. But, if one has a C22 fully overloaded for cruising, and/or have to deal with very strong currents, or strong winds resulting in very rough seas then the larger engine is needed and DOES make a big difference in reality. Being that we are not racers we consider the engine a piece of safety equipment and wish to have the best performance possible to deal with everyday cruising life as well as getting us out of situations that we should not have gotten into to start with.
The only negative drawback to the Honda 9.9 that we have found is that it is rather difficult to manage off the boat. It is not only heavy but cumbersome. You need to have a strong back and the assistance of the first mate helps a lot. The reason we opted for the basic Honda 9.9 with Power Thrust and the longest shaft is that the extras such as electric start and power tilt add a lot of weight to the unit and are not necessary for an engine this size.
Hope our insights are helpful.
Philip & Sharon
P.S.: The only problems that we have heard about in regards to Honda reliability involve the carburetor. It has some very small jets that can clog with dirty or bad fuel. Ways to avoid any problems are: Use fuel stabilizer all the time; use fresh fuel; run the fuel out of the engine when finished using it (Honda has even installed a carb drain); and we added an extra in line fuel filter to the fuel tank line for our trip to the Bahamas. |