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Eric Olson
madison, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
 08/16/2004 10:26 PM Pacific Time
Hello,
I am looking at buying a 1996, wing keel, C22 Mk II. The boat has been stored indoors its whole life, and only sailed from 1998 to fall of 2000, stored indoors from 2000 to the present. The previous owner has modified the galley in such a way that I don't think it is very functional. He fit a new plywood board under the starboard cockpit bench, aft of the starboard setee, with a new hole for the sink, (no faucet, just a drain). I think (from looking at pictures of an intact boat), this was where the original galley was located. The sink is now under the cockpit seat with about 6 inches above it, and the stove cannot be used where it is stored, but rather you have to remove it to use it. (I hope this makes sense.) It looks like the original galley frame piece is included with the boat, but I was wondering how difficult it would be to restore the galley to its original. I don't think he was worried about cooking onboard, but I am.
Also, he cut the port side bulkhead straight down at the inside edge of the port setee, eliminating the support for the (ridiculously small) table, and the portion of the bulkhead from the port setee to the compression post. This left the cabin open to the porta-pot storage area on the port side, and the compression post fully exposed. Is this section of the bulkhead crucial for rigidity, and strength? There is no bulkhead from the port setee to the starboard setee across the aft edge of the V-berth. Again, I hope I am making sense.
Thanks in advance for any help.
Eric Olson |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
08/17/2004 5:52 AM Pacific Time
I am having difficulty following your descriptions. Could you post some photos, somewhere?
Don't let your decision be based on the galley set. You are buying a sailboat, not a kitchen. The cabin is so small,. I consider it a hazard to cook in it anyway. Invest in a bimini and move the stove to the cockpit or use a sternrail mounted barbecue grill. |
Eric Olson
madison, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
08/17/2004 6:03 AM Pacific Time
I will get pictures today. As far as the galley goes, I know it is not a crucial part of sailing, but I am trying to figure out a good offer on the boat, and I would like to return it to what Catalina intended.
As for the cut out bulkhead, I am more worried about it being a structural change that would shorten the life of the boat.
I'll get pics today.
Thanks
Eric |
Garrett
Phoenix, AZ
Boat Name: "Sting"
Model/Year: C22 1974
Hull No. 3627
Hailing Port: Lake Pleasant, AZ |
08/17/2004 6:53 AM Pacific Time
I'd like to see the pics as well...I have a 1974 with original sliding galley I am thinking about restoring...
Garrett
garrettav8or@prodigy.net |
Eric Olson
madison, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
08/17/2004 12:15 PM Pacific Time
I went back and looked at the boat again, and noticed a couple of other things that would have to be dealt with.
As far as the galley goes, all the parts are there to rebuild it to how it was--over hanging the starboard quarter berth. Did this pull out like on earlier versions, or was it fixed in place?
The parts are also there to rebuild the table assembly if desired, although I would have to patch the cut. After looking at it again, I noticed the piece cut out of the bulkhead is not structural, but (I think) it was put in to block the view of the porta-potti, and make the vee berth more private.
You can see photos at http://www.commongroundpottery.com/catalina%2022.htm
After snooping around in the boat a little longer, I put my head back into the port quarterberth, and slid in under the cockpit. There is a piece of plywood running vertically from behind the cabin liner, to the transom, about 8 -10 inches high. It looks like the previous owner drilled a 3" hole through it, for what I would assume is a pass through for wires, hoses, etc. In drilling this hole, I believe he cracked the inner cloth liner that covers the stiffeners, (or at least started the crack). Broker says this could be ground out and epoxied. There are pictures of this hole at the above link.
Asking price is $13,900, low retail in NADA is $9200, high retail is $10,200. It has some extras, like radio, depth/knot, canvas enclosure for the pop top, two batteries with charge from Honda 8hp OB, roller furling.
I made him an offer which was rejected, and in reply he said he wants to get $12,000. The boat is in great condition, even with the changes and repairs I'll have to do. I hate dinking around with price and back and forth. Does this seem like a reasonable price? I know it is hard to tell without seeing the boat, but it is pretty clean.
Thanks again, and sorry this was so long. This is one of the biggest purchases I have made, and I want to make sure I do it right. I appreciate your advice.
Eric Olson |
Louis Plaisance
PRAIRIEVILLE, LA
Boat Name: Saint Benedict
Model/Year: C22/1988
Hull No. 14686
Hailing Port: Lake PONTCHARTRAIN, LA |
08/17/2004 1:29 PM Pacific Time
Hello Eric,
Check the boats on the Yacht World site. And the new boat dealers. That kind of money will be close to a new hull. Of course, the extras will build up the sales price.
Louis John Plaisance |
Eric Olson
madison, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
08/18/2004 6:05 AM Pacific Time
Thanks Louis,
I think the boat is probably a good deal, since there are no extras that I would have to buy. The boat has everything and then some. Just wanted to hear other folks opinions.
How many extras, and how good a shape should a boat be in to command a higher than normal price? Other boats from this year are selling for thousands less.
Is it bad for a boat to sit for 4 years out of the water? The hull looks good, with no flat spots.
I bought a '69 O'day Javelin this spring, for a higher than normal price, because the owner had taken care of the boat more than he sailed it, and it came with a lot of extras. The C22 is a much bigger deal, since I want this boat to last for the next 6 years until we buy a cruiser, and the Javelin only cost a couple of thousand.
What we are looking for is akin to a VW Westphalia on the water. Not the fastest boat, not the highest pointing boat, but one that will get us there safely and comfortably. Is the C22 that boat? I am also looking at a Rhodes 22, and a Precision 23, although they are older than the C22.
Any thoughts?
Thanks again.
Eric |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
08/19/2004 7:24 AM Pacific Time
Eric, I think the C22 is the best compromise in the 19-23 ft class that I've seen. I had a Paceship PY23 for a few years and was familiar with a lot of other trailorsailors.
C22 plusses:
1) Workmanship is excellent on all of the boats I looked at, so they age very well.
2) The fleet is huge compared to other boats in 19-23 ft range, so parts are readily available. As you can see, there are so many boats we have our own aftermarket dealer!
Also, when you start to personalize your boat, you will find many people have already considered what you're trying to do and have great descriptions of how they solved the problem.
3) C22 is shallower draft with the swing keel up and lighter displacement than many trailorsailors, especially keel/cb's. This makes towing and launching easier, a big plus for my wife, who is tiny.
4) But the boat is also surpisingly stiff in heavy wind, keeping up with boats that weigh 1000 lbs more. When I rig properly for the expected wind, I have not been afraid of dumping her, which is a lot more than I can say of the Rhodes 19 or Venture 21, to name a couple.
5) The C22 retrofits for singlehanding very well.
6) She doesn't take a large outboard to push her, saving your back, weight and expense. I'm in the process of downsizing from a Honda 7.5 hp(old one, weighs 100 lbs.) to a 5-6 hp 4-cycle, which should weigh in at about 55 lbs. I've even pushed her for short distances with my canoe motor. If you've spent a weekend tilting and lowering the outboard in 3 ft swells, you know that any weight improvement means a lot less risk to your back and overall safety.
This same 7.5 had a rough time pushing my PY23 in heavy swells, since she displaced 1500 lbs more. But the PY didn't handle any better in Lake Ontario blows than the C22.
7) The poptop is easy to use, and makes the boat a lot less cramped than our old boat.
8) If you want to race or cruise, there are fleets all over the country.
The galley design and the cockpit drains on older models are the only real weak points in design. The former is an annoyance, the latter should be rectified as soon as you can. This site has discussions of both.
She may not be the fastest boat for her length, but we came to the conclusion that our '80 C22 is going to be in the family a long time.
Chip Lee |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
08/20/2004 6:31 AM Pacific Time
Chip - Your description of the Catalina 22 advantages is one of the best I have ever read. Please post it to the Sailnet list as well. |
Eric Olson
madison, WI
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
08/20/2004 10:41 AM Pacific Time
Thanks everyone. I appreciate the advice and insight.
I have made an offer on the boat. Just waiting for the reply. I think the Catalina will definitely fit our needs. This boat is in the best shape of the 3 we were looking at.
Chip--
My mate is small too, and with the mast raising sysytem of the C22, it should be no problem for us to rig.
Thanks again.
Eric |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
08/22/2004 5:38 AM Pacific Time
Thanks Dick. I'll post it if you like.
Actually, thanks should go to Richard Lowell & co, and people like you, Michael Smalter and Chip Ford. Richard's site is one of the highlights of my work day, because you guys take the time to point out C22 issues/opportunities.
If I can't be sailing, at least I can be reading about it - and not just about a $200,000 boat cruising in a place I probably won't sail to!
Eric, I hope you enjoy your new boat as much as we do.
Fair winds,
Chip
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Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
08/23/2004 5:02 AM Pacific Time
Can you tell I'm dyslexic on weekends? I meant Lowell Richardson...sorry, Lowell...
Chip |
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