T a Brunemeyer
Beachwood NJ
Boat Name: Faith
Model/Year: c-22
Hull No. 1972
Hailing Port: |
 10/04/2004 7:36 AM Pacific Time
Okay
I've got the old keel out, it's very roughbut probably salvagable. It looks as though it was shaped fairly well when it was cast but I'm gong to fair it up as recomended in the video. My bigest problem though is that the pin hole nhas elongated over the 32 years of its life and needs to be fixed I'm thinkin that I need to cut out a square or circle and plce a new piece of metal in that then drill and press a new pin, the question is then that I need to know if the keel is cast iron or steel and does anyone have the plans or layout for placement of the pin. Please Help
as to the hull I've sanded from the waterline down and found lots of crazing, blisters and a few poorly done patches all of which are repairable (its only labor afterall), the freeboard and all the above waterline hull is in pretty good shape just some crazing which I'll sand out or broaden with a can opener then patch with gelcoat putty and then finish with a new coat of gelcoat over the hoel surface (Does gelcoat stick to old gelcoat?)
Thanks for your help |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
10/05/2004 7:15 AM Pacific Time
http://mywebpage.netscape.com/TedsSailingPage/keel1.html has a keel print & some referb information.
Catalina Direct Sells a keel template that adds about 8% to the thickness at 35-40% back from the leading edge. This basically shapes the keel like an airplane wing for better pointing & smoother sailing.
I had an over sized pin made for my keel that seems to be working well, a picture is on Randy W's site. I did not like the idea of 550 pound resting on epoxy. So my pin is about 1 inch thick in the middle with the ends the same as the hangers. The 1 inch thickness width is the same as the keel width.
Cheers, Have fun,
Bob |
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22 '76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
10/05/2004 8:27 AM Pacific Time
Hi Bob, That is a great idea, I wish I had thought of it.
Al Ge |
Greg Nelson
Rose Haven, MD/Oro Valley,AZ
Boat Name: SOBB TOO
Model/Year: 1975/6
Hull No. 5953
Hailing Port: Deale, MD |
10/05/2004 10:03 AM Pacific Time
I went ahead and epoxied the CD sleeve in. It has made it through the first year with no problem so we shall see. In any case it is probably better than the old elongated hole and pin that was worn three quartes through. I also put the CD shims on. It was the smoothest quietest sailing year I've ever had.
While the boat is out check your lower gudgeon. I resealed mine based on a tip in this forum and for the first time in 20 years took on no water!!! |
PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER
FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK
Model/Year: 1990 C22
Hull No.
Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA |
10/06/2004 2:58 AM Pacific Time
Hello:
In regards to sealing the lower gudgeon --- I resealed mine before our trip to the Bahamas and it also is the first time since I bought the boat in 1990 that I haven't had any water in the bottom of the boat. I strongly recommend it if you have water that you can't figure out where it is coming from.
Philip |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
10/06/2004 6:10 AM Pacific Time
Al,
The idea of the bigger pin came from my machinist. I took the CD kit with the spacer sleeve to him with the keel to drill out the egged pinhole. I had the print from the linked web site. He callipered everything drilled the hole in the keel & started machining a piece of marine bronze. When he finished he handed me the thickened pin & said will this work.
I guess years of building up wrist pins for pump jacks; a keel pin was just a walk in the park for him.
Cheers,
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059
Over Keel
|
T a Brunemeyer
Beachwood NJ
Boat Name: Faith
Model/Year: c-22
Hull No. 1972
Hailing Port: |
10/07/2004 7:18 AM Pacific Time
WELL IT GETS BETTER, APARENTLY THE GUY WHO OWNED THE BOAT PREVIOUSLY MUST HAVE HIT SOMETHING REAL HARD BECAUSE NOT ONLY ARE THIER SOME VERY POORLY PATCHED SPOTS ON THE FORWARD HALF OF THE HULL BUT THERE IS A GOUGE ABOUT AN INCH DEEP IN THE PORT SIDE OF THE KEEL THAT ODDLY ENOUGH ARKS IN A LINE THAT MATCHES THE PATH OF THELOCKDOWN BOLT (HMMM) ON THE BRIGHT SIDE THOUGH I'VE GOT A BUDDY WITH A 220V WELDER, A MAG DRILL AND 30 YEARS OF METAL WORKING EXPERTISE WHO SAYS "NO PROBLEM" A CASE OF BEER SOME DINNER AND SUPPLIES AND HE'LL FILL THE GOUGE AND GAPS AROUND THE PIN WITH EITHER STAINLESS OR ZINC AND THE MAG DRILL (I GOTTA' SEE THIS THING) USES AN ELECTRO MAGNET TO BOND TO THE KEEL AND WORKS LIKE A DRILL PRESS FORM THERE. BACK TO THE DOWN SIDE I PULLED THE GUDGEONS OFF THE TRANSOM AND LO AND BEHOLD A TRICKEL OF NASTY PURPLEISH SCHMEG LEAKED OUT, I'M PRAYING ITS JUST A LOCALIZED SPOT OF UNCURED RESIN OR SOMETHING, I THINK I'LL DRILL A FEW SMALL HOLES TO SEE IF ANYMORE COMES OUT AND PRAY THAT THE WHOLE THING ISNT SATURATED. THANKS FOR THE LINK TO THE SPECS ON THE KEEL OH WELL BACK TO SANDING
TIM |
David Daye
Whidbey IS, WA
Boat Name: Heelin' Dancer
Model/Year: c22 1976 Swing Keel
Hull No. 5634
Hailing Port: Cultus Bay |
10/10/2004 10:12 PM Pacific Time
Today 10/10 with the keel video half memorized, all supplies in hand and all apparati built, we jacked up the boat and dropped the keel. Bore, bore, bore. The boat rose easily, the hanger bolts all released, everything went very easily for a couple who are 50-ish and inclined to take numerous breaks.
Although we were determinened not to innovate anything, we finally succumbed to conceiving micro-chocks for the hydraulic jack, tiny wood wedges to block the small wheels and reduce any chance of the jack to move laterally from small unresolved horizontal force components. Given the numbers of these boats there must be hundreds of you who've done the same long before us.
A few quick loading pictures and a somewhat exotic future projection are at http://www.geocities.com/puget4 |
T a Brunemeyer
Beachwood NJ
Boat Name: Faith
Model/Year: c-22
Hull No. 1972
Hailing Port: |
10/11/2004 10:49 AM Pacific Time
So the saga continues with mixed news, as you know I'm in the middle of refurbishing a 1972 C22 I've got the keel out and ready for grinding and refurbishing (so far so good) My buddy is bringing a 220 volt welder down and I've located the vastlyoverpriced nickel electrodes used to fill the elongated pin hole and the gouge left by the hold down bolt when the last owner went aground (frequent occurence judgeing from the depth of the gouge over 1/2 an inch) anyway todays question regards the hangers and specificly how much play should there be between the pin and the hanger, i know that once the pin is set securely in the keel it wont wobble at that joint and I realize that with both hangers mounted in the hull the play will be limited but realisticly how much slop should there be? My hangers look as though they are still round and the pin is also visibly at least still round but there is a lot of play between them. Any help would be apreciated. In other news I got up into the trunk with some sandpaper and much to my suprise everything up ther looks as though its in good shape, I thouhgt it would be trashed like the cabin side is around the hold down bolt but no, even the gelcoat looks as thouhg its in one piece. THANK THE LORD
|
Uwe Behrendt
Rutland Vermont
Boat Name: Joyful
Model/Year: 1977 C22
Hull No. 7200
Hailing Port: Plunder Bay Orwell VT |
10/12/2004 3:12 AM Pacific Time
Well I took mine out yesterday also and its about in the same shape as yours I like the oversize pin idea.
I have not recieved my vidio yet .
Thanks Uwe |
Uwe Behrendt
Rutland Vermont
Boat Name: Joyful
Model/Year: 1977 C22
Hull No. 7200
Hailing Port: Plunder Bay Orwell VT |
10/12/2004 3:21 AM Pacific Time
When my keel came out and put the boat back on the trailer,I only had about 5lbs of hitch weight
so I almost tipped it over to the back because I forgot to put the jacks back under the trailer. Thanks to my freind who sat on the trailer just in time, a close call
Uwe |
Fred Apstein
Gabriola Is BC
Boat Name: Scruples
Model/Year: 1976
Hull No. 95
Hailing Port: Gabriola Is BC |
10/12/2004 7:54 AM Pacific Time
I have my keel ready to go back in the boat. I used epoxy to fill the (fairly big) gap around the spacer.
My question is; do I need a zinc on the swing keel?
We sail almost all in salt water, but I wonder if the hole through the keel for the zinc is just asking for rust and corrosion.
Once again, I hope that the actual experience of folks on the list will save me from a decision based on theory and dock gossip.
Fred |
Greg Nelson
Rose Haven, MD/Oro Valley,AZ
Boat Name: SOBB TOO
Model/Year: 1975/6
Hull No. 5953
Hailing Port: Deale, MD |
10/12/2004 8:21 AM Pacific Time
I've always kept a zinc on. I've had no problem with the through hole. The zincs seem to do a lot of sacrificing. With the pin/keel electrolitc mismatch I have always thought the sacrifical zinc made sense. |
T a Brunemeyer
Beachwood NJ
Boat Name: Faith
Model/Year: c-22
Hull No. 1972
Hailing Port: |
10/14/2004 10:16 AM Pacific Time
OUT THE RUST ON THE KEEL WHICH LO AND BEHOLD REVIELED A RATRHER NICE LOOKING HUNK OF IRON, THE NDUST GOT SO BAD THOUGH I HAD TO SEAL UP THE LITTLE LEANTO SHED TYPE STRUCTURE I'M USING SO AFTER ABOUT 10 MINUTES OF GRINDING I CAT SEE 5 FEET IN FRONT OF ME LOL THANK GOD FOR RESPERATERS. YESTERDAY I TOOK PFF FROM WORK A FEW HOURS EARLY TO BIKE UP TOI A FEW BOATING SUPPLY SHOPS AND PAINT STORES WITH LITLE LUCK I'VE BEEN LOOKING FOR RUST CONVERTERS AND FAIRING COMPOUNDS BOATING STORES CARRY THE INTERLUX FAIRING COMPOUND IN 250ml CANS SO I'D BE BROKE BEFORE I GOT PAST THE CABLE PIN ON THE KEEL AFTER THE BICYCLE RIDE I CALLED CD'S TECH LINE FOR SOME GUIDANCE WHICH THOUGH HELPFUL ON ISSUES REGARDING HANGERS, HINGE PINS CENTERING KITS AND TURNING BALLS (TO THE TUNE OF ABOUT $160) KAACCCCHINNGG REALY DIDNT ANSWER MY CONVERTER QUESTIONS (WHERE TO GET IT AND WILL FAIRING COMPOUNDS STICK TO IT) THEY DID SUGGEST HOWEVER THAT I GET IN TOUCH WITH THE GEUDGON BROTHERS OVER AT WEST SYSTEMS AND ASK THEM ABOUT IT, FURTHER THEY SUGGESTED I USE EPOXY FAIRING COMPOUND RATHER THAN POLYESTER (ITS LESS POURIS) (AGAIN CUBIC DOLLARS) AT WEST SYSTEMS I GOT THE WE'RE CLOSED CALL AGAIN DURING REGULAR BUSINESS HOURS (EASTERN TIME) EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE IN CENTRAL TIME i THINK? ANYWAY I EMAILED EM' WITH THE EXPECTATION OF GETTING A CANNED RESPONSE BACK IN A FEW DAYS BUT NO WHEN I TURNED ON THE PC THIS MORNING I HAD A NICE REPLY IN WHICH I WAS TOLD THAT ON THE SEVERAL CAST IRON KEELS THEY HAVE REFURBED THEY DIDNT USE ANY RUST CONVERTOR AT ALLINSTEAD THEY WAITED UNTIL THE GOOP HAD SET UP A BIT THENFORCED IT DOWN AND INTO THE CRACKS AND DIVITS OF THE IRON WITH A WIRE BRUSH. A NICE IDEA BUT 1) HOW ABOUT THE QUESTION I HAD ASKED (CAN I USE RUST CONVERTOR UNDER EPOXY? AND 2) ISNT USING THE CONVERTOR IMPORTANT TO KEEP THE THING FROM RUSTING OUT AGAIN? ANYWAY ITS FUN !
NOW FOR THE QUESTION OF THE HOUR I ORDERED THE BUSHING FOR THE HINGE PIN LAST EVENING AND FORGOT TO ASK ABOUT THE DIAMETER O.D. OF THE THING, DOES ANY BODY KNOW?
|
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
10/15/2004 11:48 AM Pacific Time
Hi Ta- If youi want to "convert" any rust the keel after you have cleaned the scale, the best you can, look for a product called Extend. As far as the coating is concerned, my boats previous owner used West Systems Epoxy and micro ballons to fair the keel. After that coating cured, he used more epoxy mixed with carbon to put a finish on it. IIt looked beautiful. I recently damaged the leading edge, dragging the boat on the trailer after the keel cable eye bolt broke. A friend helped my grind the epoxy smooth and apply more to reshape the leading edge. Then I applied more epoxy/carbon mixture and the keel is as good as new.
PS. Please don't use all caps in your messages. It is considered by most to represent shouting. |
T a Brunemeyer
Beachwood NJ
Boat Name: Faith
Model/Year: c-22
Hull No. 1972
Hailing Port: |
10/21/2004 10:28 AM Pacific Time
Dick
Sorry for the all caps in my past posts no harm meant and I shall try not to0 repeat the same mistake.
An update as of today the keel is down to bare cast iron, the hull has been stripped of all paint and actually has some fairing compound on her, the nickle electrdes are in as well as the keel centering kit new hangers pin and bushing. My buddy is coming tomorrow night with the welder and mag drill to fit the bushing and fill the elongation and gouge in the keel so all in all things are moving along quite smoothly.
One fly in the ointment though is how I am going to refinish the hull, I called Mertons ( afiberglass supplier out of the midwest and was told in no uncertianterms that I should under no cercumstances try to re gelcoat the boat, but that i should use Epifanes or Interlux two part poly paint like Interlux Perfection above the waterline and interprotect 2000/2001. So more research Joy!
If anyone has had some experiance with the 2 parters I'd be interested in hering about your highs and lows in using these products Also how well do they hold up? |
T a Brunemeyer
Beachwood NJ
Boat Name: Faith
Model/Year: c-22
Hull No. 1972
Hailing Port: |
10/25/2004 7:02 AM Pacific Time
Well another weekend down in the saga of rebuilding FAITH, thank the lord for friends with heavy duty tools!
As you all know I had a buddy planning to come down for a visit this past weekend which he did, in his beat up old F150 with nothing but rust holding the bewd on which in and of itself is no big deal (hell we drove to Iowa and back in the thing this pat summer) the big deal was the gasoline powered welding tower that he had lowered in to the bed via crane and the beautiful Mag drill. (Awesome machine). So Saturday after running to the Home Despot for some miscelanious stuff we got to work, first we ground down ther remaining crudd from around the pivot pin hole in the keel then centered and plummed the mag drill "Watch yuor fingers" my buddy says as he turns on the magnet 'thunk' 10 tons of holding force, at that point the thing is like a horizontal drill press. We mounted the 1 1/4 drill bit and WHIRRRR right through. after a few hours several hard ciders a pizza and two pounds of nickel electrodes andvarious and sundry nuts and bolts (filler) later I had a nice keel. the gouge from the pockdown pin is now proud of the old cast and the bushiing is not going to move for another 32 years. This week I'll do some grinding to fluch up all the new welds and voila good as new. Sunday we had a truck cluab meeting (I don't even own a car let alone a truck)(slick60s.org 61-66' ford F100s if your interested) down in Deleware where much to my delight the host has a veritable machine shop OH JOY! we mounted the new hanger brackets on the Bridgeport mill and took of 7/16ths from each side and the bandsaw took off 5/16ths from the pin, so barring any problems and with just a bit of sanding I should have the 1 3/4" inches I need between the two of them when I mount the keel
So thats it, I got a lot done with the help of some great friends and all at the low low cost of doing what I'd be doing anyway.
Have a lovely day all
Tim |
