David J. Pierce
Sunset, Louisiana
Boat Name: Little Miracles
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No. 12822
Hailing Port: Cypermort Point, Louisiana |
 03/22/2005 10:22 AM Pacific Time
The previous owner apparently ran aground quite a bit. When I pulled the keel to fair and refinish it, I found a 1/2 inch grove in the side of the keel.
Has anyone had this problem?
Would having a welder fill in the grove and fair it be an effective repair? |
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
03/22/2005 12:29 PM Pacific Time
I'm not sure about the repare but check the lock down bolt area for any demage and leaks. If the PO ran aground so often it could be some demage to the fiberglass in that region. Good luck.
"Spirit" #13485 |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/23/2005 9:19 PM Pacific Time
I am in the minority, but I think the groove was somehow put there in the casting process. I have seen many many keels with that groove. I find it hard to believe that the flat end of a stainless bolt could wear that deep of a groove in cast iron that is so hard you have to use a cobalt drill and lots of oil to drill a hole in it. JMHO |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/23/2005 9:23 PM Pacific Time
Sorry but I am passionate on the subject. As for the repair, I would not worry about the groove. In fact, don't worry about locking down the keel. Go sailing instead. |
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan
Boat Name: Adventuring
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 1787
Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair |
03/23/2005 11:29 PM Pacific Time
I've also seen this grove on earlier keels. How's this for a guess! The grove was machined there so the keel could move and prevent damage in case you did run a-ground. |
David J. Pierce
Sunset, Louisiana
Boat Name: Little Miracles
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No. 12822
Hailing Port: Cypermort Point, Louisiana |
03/24/2005 8:41 AM Pacific Time
I have inspected the keel trunk and do not find evidence of damage. There is no leaking around the lock-down bolt.
I reviewed the C22 Tech Manual and do not see the grove on the keels presented in the keel refinishing section.
This has peaked my interest more.
I am in the middle of putting a new bottom on my 1984 C22 and intend to have the keel sandblasted, faired and refinished.
I know there has been much discussion regarding to lock or not in the past. I have always attempted to locked down the keel.
I hope to get a definitive answer regarding the design issue at this point. If the grove is a design feature, I need do nothing additional. If not, I would think that the keel lock-down bolt will be less effective at holding the keel down during a broach and that worries me.
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Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/24/2005 2:56 PM Pacific Time
David - To repeat myself, Go sailing instead. For the keel to swing up and possibly damage the boat, the mast would have to be underwater. In that case, the mast would probably do more damage to the boat than the keel.
In almost thirty years of sailing a Catalina 22, I have had some really hairy broaches. I never have locked the keel down, and never had a problem with a swinging keel.
According to Frank Butler, the designer, the lock down feature was for the situation of sailing in the ocean in breaking waves, where the boat might capsize after falling off the wave.
There might also be a situation where you are sailing in very steep waves or chop and the boat is pitching wildly. In that case locking down might be prudent.
As I said, forget the groove and go sailing. |
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan
Boat Name: Adventuring
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 1787
Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair |
03/24/2005 11:19 PM Pacific Time
I agree with Dick. Go sailing now and worry about the groove later! I sailed my first boat for 10 years with the groove in the keel, always locked it, and never had a problem. The main reason before was to stop the "clunk". In fact the same keel is on the boat I have now and the groove is covered with fairing compound and I never bother to lock the keel anymore. |
Larry
Greenville, SC
Boat Name: Kemo Sabe
Model/Year: C-22 , 1973
Hull No. 2229
Hailing Port: www.keoweesailingclub.com |
03/25/2005 7:04 AM Pacific Time
My lock down bolt is history. I took a grinder to the strap area where it is and removed the rusty strap which the bolt screwed through. I have done that to two boats and both boats had the bolt-slide 'etching' which you referred to. I thought it was a factory touch!???
I have been knocked over so flat until my starboard spreader was in the water. (My fault when that happened, but another story.) Someone on another boat I was racing against said my keel looked 'pretty' sticking out from the side of the bottom. The whole point is that I doubt the lock down bolt would have done anything to prevent the keel swinging, if it wanted to go. It never moved from its position. It moves fairly easily with the bolt screwed against the keel anyway. Only thing would have been that the trunk would have been damaged when the pressure was knocked against the bolt, I think.
I had much rather that the keel be free to pivot in the even I slam the bottom or a hard obstruction. I don't think there is as much potential for damage to the interior of the trunk with the keel bolt gone and not 'hunkered down' against the keel.
So, don't worry, be happy and go sailing. :)
Larry |
Philip L .KWASINSKI
Chicago Illinois
Boat Name: O Wa Diddy
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 10523
Hailing Port: Chicago |
03/25/2005 11:24 AM Pacific Time
I know this is off topic but should the keel be left down or cranked up when the boat is in a mooring?
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Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
03/25/2005 12:38 PM Pacific Time
I keep my boat in a slip. The water is shallow, so I have to have the keel up. I've broken 2 keel cables since 1987. They broke right where the cable touches the turning ball. Now I make sure that I vary the position of the keel when I come in (full up is 29 turns, so I do 29, 28, 27, 28, 29, etc) With the keel up, it clunks a bit. If it were down and tightened, it would put no strain on the cable and wouldn't make any noise.
A friend of mine with a C22 kept his keel down at the slip, and found that when he backed into weeds to get out, the weeds wrapped around the cable and made it almost impossible to sail till they freed themselves.
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Larry
Greenville, SC
Boat Name: Kemo Sabe
Model/Year: C-22 , 1973
Hull No. 2229
Hailing Port: www.keoweesailingclub.com |
03/26/2005 7:30 AM Pacific Time
I frankly would recommend to anyone to keep the cable down, if it is physically possible.
Having owned three 22's, I have always kept them in the water (on lakes) and have always kept the keels down. My main concern is just plain stress. I don't want the keel hanging there on that cable with all the weight pulling at the companionway threshold. The keel pin is designed for supporting the keel's weight, so that's where it should be, I think. The boat is more stable in that position. I'd not like it hanging there, if I didn't have keel shims to keep the keel from wobbling around, even if it was raised.
Many a 22 has had cracks develop right in the space between the two hanger bolts for the winch, or the general area and I can think of only one thing that stresses the boat right there: the keel hanging there. I don't even trail my boat with it suspended and no one I know does. There are those who do, however, where by design or forgetfulness or?
I'm for keeping the keel dangling. My .02 cents worth.
Larry
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