Sean Madian
Portland, OR
Boat Name: Time Out
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. CL 3839 FX
Hailing Port: Portland |
 12/17/2005 1:29 PM Pacific Time
Has anyone tried mounting thier battery(s) in the forward storage areas under the V-Birth? Time Out rides low in the stern (outboard, anchors, sailors, etc.) and with a new battery system going in this winter now is the time to think about balance in the water.
If you have done this, where did you mount them and how?
Sean |
Bob Conway
Huber Heights, Ohio
Boat Name: Spindrift
Model/Year: C22/1979
Hull No. #8717
Hailing Port: Buck Creek, Ohio |
12/17/2005 5:10 PM Pacific Time
Sean,
I moved my battery forward and am extremely happy with it. Two points against the move are: 1. The location is against national C22 race rules. 2. Removing the battery is a bit more work.
I have two hatches in the v-berth. One opens to a lined storage area. The other opens to an unlined access. I put the battery and my depth sounder sensor there. I simply took a board and epoxied it to the hull in the unlined access area. I then used several wood screws and attached a battery box to the board. I installed the battery and secured it with the battery box lid and strap. I used outdoor elecric wire to run power from the battery to the switch plate in it's original position. I ran the wire between the lining and the hull on the port side. I also added an in line fuse near the battery. I didn't want to risk burning the boat up due to an accidental short. It took some work to get it to thread through, but was worth the effort. The weight of the battery in the front does wonders for the boat trim.
Bob |
Sean Madian
Portland, OR
Boat Name: Time Out
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. CL 3839 FX
Hailing Port: Portland |
12/18/2005 6:20 AM Pacific Time
Thanks Bob. That is more-or-less what I had in mind and the effect I anticipated. I hadn't thought about race rules though. I don't plan on racing but it's worth taking a step back to consider that. Are you using one batt or two and what size/amperage are they? |
Bob Conway
Huber Heights, Ohio
Boat Name: Spindrift
Model/Year: C22/1979
Hull No. #8717
Hailing Port: Buck Creek, Ohio |
12/18/2005 10:58 AM Pacific Time
Sean,
I am not very knowledgeable about elctronics. It is a deep cycle marine battery. It says 500 cranking amps at 32 degrees and 75 amp hours. Does that answer your question?
Bob |
Bob Harper
Lawrence, KS
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
12/18/2005 1:51 PM Pacific Time
I have basically the same setup as Bob describer. I don't race so that is not an issue wuth me but the second comment is right on. If I were to do it over again, the two smaller and lighter battery optiion is appealing.
Bob Harper
|
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
12/19/2005 5:48 AM Pacific Time
For those of you who are considering mounting the battery under the V berth, it may be a good idea to balance out the load in the stern, but you will be adding to the pitching moment of the boat. Be forewarned that the boat will hobbie horse more in short seas.
Before you put down the board to mount the tie down system for the battery box, created some studs for the strap brackets. Mount the bolts in it with the heads down and fender washers on both sides of the board. Puts nuts on the protruding bolts before attaching the strap brackets to hold the "studs" in place. The forces on the battery box require a more solid attachment than wood screws.
Before you run "outdoor extension cords" from the bow location to your switch panel, consider using a lower wire gage than those cords usually offer. You have DC current running a long way. A lot of potential voltage drop in that run. Larger wires are needed to avoid that loss.
As for the original battery location, it may not be ethical, but keep a small PWC battery there to connect, in the event you ever need to be measured. |
Sean Madian
Portland, OR
Boat Name: Time Out
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. CL 3839 FX
Hailing Port: Portland |
12/19/2005 6:34 AM Pacific Time
Yes Bob C. Thanks. Bob H., what batts did you go with and what WOULD you go with. Great insight on the mounting options. I looked in the V-birth this weekend and realized that getting the batts in/out will be a tight squeeze. Perhaps mounting them with the long sides running left-right versus forward-aft? |
Bob Conway
Huber Heights, Ohio
Boat Name: Spindrift
Model/Year: C22/1979
Hull No. #8717
Hailing Port: Buck Creek, Ohio |
12/19/2005 7:22 AM Pacific Time
Sean,
Mine is mounted with the long sides left to right. Dick makes some very good points. You have to consider where you are sailing. I don't have exposure to heavy sea conditions where I sail. However, I've been reading a book titled "Gipsy Moth Circles the World" by Sir Francis Chichester. In it he gets knocked down a few times and it describes the chaos of having all the things inside the boat tossed all over. It makes you think about how things should be stowed and secured in case of a knock-down. Not only can it be messy, it can be down right dangerous. The battery is heavy and full of acid. You don't want it bouncing around the boat.
Bob |
Greg Baker
Charlotte, NC
Boat Name: Sea Sharp Minor
Model/Year: Catalina 22 - 1984 - Swing Keel
Hull No. 11823
Hailing Port: Lake Norman Sailing Club |
12/19/2005 8:24 AM Pacific Time
For a battery in the forward berth area, I would definately go with a gel cell so you don't have to worry about acid spilling. Check out the new spiral wound gell cells. They are pricey but from what I hear, great batteries. |
Sean Madian
Portland, OR
Boat Name: Time Out
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. CL 3839 FX
Hailing Port: Portland |
12/20/2005 8:35 AM Pacific Time
Good points all. I'm hearing a host of conflicting information and, frankly, getting further and further from a decision. Gels are safer (no acid, etc.) but touchy for charging. And expensive. Deep cycle flooded are cheaper, easier to maintain/charge but you have the acid issue. Then again, a guy at West Marine w/a 34' O'Day says that the flooded rarely if ever spill. A person at Batteries+ says that they can spill just being tipped up onto and off of the shelves at their store. I just don't know what to believe any more.
And don't get me started on two-versus-one (including the debate about 6v vs 12v). I wish there were a difinitive "Best practices" that simply laid it all out. |
John Connor
Little Rock, AR
Boat Name: Weekender
Model/Year: C22 1982
Hull No. 11192
Hailing Port: Little Rock, Arkansas |
12/20/2005 11:47 AM Pacific Time
Here is the best practice approach that I used to decide on battery type and number.
In deciding whether to use one or two 6 or 12 volt batteries, I took the number of angels that could be comfortably positioned on the head of a pin, divided by the square root of 57 and chose 1 12 volt.
For wet or gell cell, I put 17 non-consecutive binary numbers in a hat, compared the prices, asked my wife to choose a number between me sleeping in bed and sleeping on the couch and went with the wet cell.
I personnally like what Don Casey recommended in Sailboat Electronics Simplified and would follow his recommendation.
Merry Christmas,
John |
Sean Madian
Portland, OR
Boat Name: Time Out
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. CL 3839 FX
Hailing Port: Portland |
12/20/2005 2:16 PM Pacific Time
John -- I'm now laughing out loud and having to explain it to my work mates. Your formulas sound easier to apply than what I am getting elsewhere. I'm sure that they do, in fact, represent "best practices." BTW, I've got the Don Casey book but I'm finding he's better w/general guidance than out and out recommendations. |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
12/20/2005 3:39 PM Pacific Time
You know Sean you have fleet 20, an active and experienced fleet right there in portland. Look them up in their booth at the boat show at the EXPO center the week starting Jan 7. Dick |
Austin Cooley
Honeoye Falls, NY
Boat Name: Wings of the Morning
Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1983
Hull No. 11602
Hailing Port: Keuka Lake, Branchport, NY |
12/20/2005 7:00 PM Pacific Time
Here is my battery recommendation for day cruising and having shore power available. I use a deep discharge 12 volt garden tractor battery (Sears) in the normal place under the keel winch and a small wired-in battery charger (Wal-Mart, ~ $25). I've had the same battery for 4 or 5 years. We occasionally sail at night and often use a radio powered by the battery. Of course being able to plug in at night is a really nice convenience.
Austin Cooley |
Sean Madian
Portland, OR
Boat Name: Time Out
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. CL 3839 FX
Hailing Port: Portland |
12/21/2005 5:45 AM Pacific Time
Dick -- I just joined fleet 20 but can't find a roster for them. I'll recheck their website.
Austin -- Great idea. What's the amp rating on the batt and are you opening the vents when charging? I've been told that the outgassing can be corrosive and therefore it is best to charge a flooded battery out of the boat. |
Bob Harper
Lawrence, KS
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
12/21/2005 4:42 PM Pacific Time
Sean- Sorry about being slow getting back to you. Although it looks as if you are getting lots of good advice. The battery I used is a group 27 size wjich is the larger size. The 24 being the smaller. It is positioned where the length runs abeam. I glassed in a ¾” exterior grade plywood board a little larger than the battery box. I cut notches in the board front and back so that the strap goes under the board. No hold down brackets. In retrospect some 1” x 1” cleats screwed down to the board to keep the battery box from sliding around would be a good idea. When glassing the board in cut/file/ sand the bottom edge of the ends so there are no sharp edges against the hull. I coated the board with epoxy. I used #6 automotive wire to run to the switch panel because I had it and I have a 4 amp alternator on my motor that can charge the battery. Probably a #10 would have worked as well. Be sure to install a fuse at the battery. I chose this arrangement because at the time we were cruising with our two kids and we seemed to use the cabin lights a lot. Also the first mate likes to cook sothere seemed to be a shift in ballast to the rear with the pots, pans and kitchen sink. The cockpit doubled as galley. I always pull the battery to charge it except when charging from the motor. Batteries need ventilation while charging. I have not had an acid spill that I know of. I have had this arrangement for over 15 years and would do it again for the type of sailing we did. If you didn’t have a power hungry crew and didn’t spend more than a long weekend aboard, the garden tractor battery in the normal location idea is attractive.
Bob
|
Sean Madian
Portland, OR
Boat Name: Time Out
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. CL 3839 FX
Hailing Port: Portland |
12/22/2005 5:57 AM Pacific Time
Bob -- Thanks! Great explanation. I've got a power hungry crew like yours although my Able Seaman and the Cabin Monkey (8 and 5 yr old boys) are pushing for a regulator to allow me to run my laptop (or more the point, let them watch movies). One of the things I can't reconcile is the charging. I'd like a plug-and-forget system but that appears to require a gel which are very finicky when charging. Flooded are easier but they should be removed. I'll likely wind up with the flooded. |
