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Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Miscellaneous / Rudder disassembly -- I'm breaking things!
 
 
Author Rudder disassembly -- I'm breaking things!
Sean Madian
Portland, OR

Boat Name: Time Out

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. CL 3839 FX

Hailing Port: Portland
01/02/2006 4:16 PM Pacific Time

My tilt up rudder is amazingly sticky. I've just installed the rudder lift system that Chip Ahoy describes (thank you Chip!). Only then did I discover that the problem isn't leverage so much as tightness. I removed the locking arm and two washers only to discover that the through bolt is fused to round fitting on the outside of the rudder housing. The housing appears to made from a soft metal (lead?) that I can chip away with a chisel but I'm not eager to do that. I've also managed to twist two of the screw heads holding the entire unit together completely off. Help! Has anyone run into this? Any ideas would be appreciated
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY

Boat Name: Marrakesh

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13645

Hailing Port: Rochester, NY
01/02/2006 5:36 PM Pacific Time

Try putting the nut onto the bolt until the threads are almost protruding from the nut. Then whack the nut sharply with a big hammer to try and drive the bolt out of the housing. If that doesn't work, you could try to drill the bolt out and replace it (possible with a larger bolt if the hole becomes distorted). I believe the housing is aluminum.

The broken screws are very common. If you can drive the bolt out, you should be able to remove the rudder and clean everything up without removing the screws. You can re-tap threads for new screws next to any any screws that you broke off.
Aaron M Benham
33a Loomis Hights

Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project

Model/Year: 1978 C22

Hull No. 8070

Hailing Port:
01/02/2006 8:03 PM Pacific Time

I had the same problem when I disassembled my rudder and found that it was just heavy corrosion holding the bolt in place. Pounding it with a hammer did nothing and I thought I would break or bend the bolt. I gave it a good soaking with a penetrating lubercant (I used Tri-Flow which is available at bike shops) which eventually broke the hold that the corrosion had on the bolt. It took numerous applications of lub and patience but not much force in the end. I plan on replacing the bolt when the restoration of the rudder is complete as a good portion of the metal has corroded or worn away. As for the bolts and screws holding the stock together, a good impact driver ( If you can find one) along with the lub should loosen them. Fasteners removed by an impact driver should be replaced.
Now, has any one repaired those three grooves on each side of the rudder blade that the hold down eventually wears into it?
Greg Guenther
Belleville, IL

Boat Name: Magnificat

Model/Year: 1970

Hull No. 473

Hailing Port: Belleville, IL
01/03/2006 10:58 AM Pacific Time

I got really annoyed with my rudder constanly banging while at anchor and trying to sleep. I dis-assembled the thing and indeed I found that the three holes were now elipses. How annoying. I took the assembly to a friend who is a machinist and he drilled three new holes equidistant between the old ones that corrected the problem for me. We talked about stresses placed on the assembly and decided that the new holes would not significantly weakent the parts.

Good luck!

Greg
Aaron M Benham
33a Loomis Hights

Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project

Model/Year: 1978 C22

Hull No. 8070

Hailing Port:
01/03/2006 7:45 PM Pacific Time

By the way, those two round fittings should come off of the rudder stock. They were also fused into place on my rudder stock and came free using the Tri-Flow.
Sean Madian
Portland, OR

Boat Name: Time Out

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. CL 3839 FX

Hailing Port: Portland
01/03/2006 8:40 PM Pacific Time

Guess what -- a 25 lb sledge solved the problem of the stuck bolt. Frustration can work but I'd not recommend it as a regular practice. Now I've got a new one: the rudder has a ton of what looks like built up epoxy on it. It appears that a PO used it to stop the rudder slop problem. I'm inclined to shave it off but will need to add back some spacers. I'm thinking of some large nylon bushings. Any thoughts/suggestions?
Aaron M Benham
33a Loomis Hights

Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project

Model/Year: 1978 C22

Hull No. 8070

Hailing Port:
01/04/2006 7:14 PM Pacific Time

Is the epoxy on the metal casting or the blade? If the epoxy is on the blade than it might have been put there to fill the gouges that the locking disks wear into the blade. That is the exact problem (among many, many others) I am trying to fix now. I was going to try to fix it by grinding it back down to good fiberglass and building it back up with fresh laminants. I have other glass work to do on the blade anyway. I was also considering glassing some stainless steel or bronze washers into the area where the locking disks contact the blade. I thought that might prevent the gouges from recurring.
I would be sure to replace that bolt that you pounded out.
Sean Madian
Portland, OR

Boat Name: Time Out

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. CL 3839 FX

Hailing Port: Portland
01/05/2006 1:36 AM Pacific Time

Thanks Aaron. It's on the blade. I think it was built up, though not uniformly, to prevent rudder slop although your note has caused me to rethink that. I'd planned, if I removed it, to add (possibly epoxy) some washers into place to prevent this. I'd vaguely thought of stainless or perhaps some sort of nylon. I ordered the replacement bolt (and while I was at it a locking tang) today from CD. I'll strip away some of the stuff and see what I'm dealing with in there. Thanks!
Aaron M Benham
33a Loomis Hights

Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project

Model/Year: 1978 C22

Hull No. 8070

Hailing Port:
02/19/2006 8:55 PM Pacific Time

Another "breaking things"rudder problem only this time its not the rudder that is breaking. I'm attempting to take the rudder casting apart to replace the sheave. I've found that the screws holdig it together are so corroded into place that I actually bent (twisted would be a better word) one of the screwdriver tips on my impact driver and the screw didn't turn at all (The impact driver supposedly applies 200 foot pounds of torque with each hammer blow). Does anyone know why the casting has two through bolts and the rest of the fasteners are machine screws? I'm not going to be able to get any of them out in one peice. I was planning to just drill out the fasteners and replace them. I was wondering if I should retap the holes for bigger screws or just through-bolt the whole thing.
Also, does anyone know what the core of the rudder blade is made of? Whatever it is made of, mine appears to be full of small air bubbles that would trap and hold any water that penetrated the laminates.
R. C. Luiken
Milford, DE

Boat Name: Ricochet

Model/Year: C-22 Swing Keel/1986

Hull No. 13560

Hailing Port: Milford, DE/St. Michaels, MD
02/20/2006 4:24 AM Pacific Time

I think the core is probably 1/4" plywood. As far as spacers are concerned I would not use stainless. You would have the same corrosion problem. I think nylon or delrin would be the way to go.

R. C. Luiken
Sean Madian
Portland, OR

Boat Name: Time Out

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. CL 3839 FX

Hailing Port: Portland
02/20/2006 6:25 AM Pacific Time

Aaron -- I twisted the heads off of two screws and gave up. Frankly, I couldn't think of a reason to take the housing apart, particularly once I'd gotten the rudder itself out as that's where all the work needed to be done. BTW, I added Chip Ahoy's extension to the rudder housing w/a few mods: I can now lift the rudder almost effortlessly! What a difference. I strongly recommend taking a look at it as it is a cheap and easy modification to make.
PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER
FELLSMERE, FLORIDA

Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK

Model/Year: 1990 C22

Hull No.

Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
02/21/2006 4:21 PM Pacific Time

In the past I have replaced all the screws with bolts. When I did it I coated all the bolts with sealant so that they could be easily removed (which I never needed to do). I also have purchased new rudder heads which I immediately took apart and coated all the screws with sealant to prevent corrosion. I personally would not bother with all the trouble drilling out old screws. I would just buy a new rudder head from Catalina Direct and do as I mentioned above. Another option if you are not a racer is to buy one of the new style kick up rudders and you won't have the corrosion problem. Just my two cents worth. Good luck.
Philip & Sharon Merlier "Swizzle Stick"
William Bell
Pt. Orange, FL

Boat Name: Phoenix

Model/Year: 1987 Catalina 22

Hull No. #13784

Hailing Port: Pt. Orange,FL
02/21/2006 7:17 PM Pacific Time

I found the best way to get the side flanges off by:-

-Remove the nut (3/8")
-use a good penitrating oil and let soak
-Hit the nut with a BIG hammer
-when this doesn't work -- wedge 4 flat bladed screw drivers 90 degrees on one flange. Use a hammer and sequence the pressure. Once the drivers are really tight, hit the nut again. 90% of the time this will get the flange off. Like using a pulley puller.

I don't see any reason to take the rudder stock apart ... unless for the sheave.

--when putting the assembly back together, use grease on the back of the flanges and bolt.

Salt water will do nasty things with aluminum.

I also glass beaded my rudder stock and zinc chromated it then painted it with out board motor paint.

As for a bushing ... I would use a non metal alternative.

Bill
87 swing keel
"Phoenix"
Pt. Orange, FL
Scott L. Shermeyer
Cherry Point, NC

Boat Name: Blue Nun

Model/Year: C22, 1980

Hull No.

Hailing Port: Cherry Point, NC
02/24/2006 5:08 PM Pacific Time

Part of the corrosion problem is a result of galvanic corrosion...a battery affect that occurs any time dissimilar metals are in contact with each other, and salt water is present. Large naval vessels had problems with weakness where the lighter weight super strusctures came into contact with the steel decks. The solution is to use silicone or some sort of sealant as a barrier between the dissimilar metal srufaces to prevent the galvanic corrosion.

Also, what you don't see will hurt you. As the less noble metal is giving up it's ghost and sacraficing body parts, that part is becoming weaker and more prone to breakage or failure at some later time under stress.

Aaron M Benham
33a Loomis Hights

Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project

Model/Year: 1978 C22

Hull No. 8070

Hailing Port:
03/02/2006 8:07 PM Pacific Time

Well, I did it. Drilled out the screws, took the casting apart, cleaned it and re-tapped the holes to accomodate 5/16 machine screws (heck, I needed an excuse to buy a drill press). I found some nice stainless steel machine screws with allen heads to replace the slotted ones. Now I just need to find the replacement sheave (I didn't see it at CD) and complete the repairs to the blade and I can put it all back together again. I will have completed my first of many boat projects. The whole thing is looking good and building confidence and so far, I have not had to spend any real money. SHH, don't say anything. My wife does not yet know the conversion rate for "boat dollars."
Kent Overbeck
Signal Mountain, TN

Boat Name: Leap Frog & FrogZilla

Model/Year: '88 Wing keel / '69 swing

Hull No. 14647 / 185

Hailing Port: Chattanooga, TN
03/03/2006 4:57 PM Pacific Time

. After my first trip on the Northern Gulf Coast Cruise, I had a real problem with corosion. I had never had the boat in salt water before and had no idea as to what it would do to my kick up rudder assembly. I had big time corosion! Fortunatly ,I was able to get it apart. I then coated all with aluminum antisieze compound. I have never had a problem since doing so.

Kermit
Louis Plaisance
PRAIRIEVILLE, LA

Boat Name: Saint Benedict

Model/Year: C22/1988

Hull No. 14686

Hailing Port: Lake PONTCHARTRAIN, LA
03/03/2006 7:54 PM Pacific Time

Hello Sean,

I have THE SOLUTION to kick up rudder problems. I call it the Self-Correcting Rudder. I will gladly email pix if you're interested.

[email protected]
Sean Madian
Portland, OR

Boat Name: Time Out

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. CL 3839 FX

Hailing Port: Portland
03/04/2006 6:04 AM Pacific Time

Hello Louis -- I solved my problem using Chip Ahoy's method (adding an extension to the back of the housing to change the angle of attack on the pull-up rope). Thanks!
Aaron M Benham
33a Loomis Hights

Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project

Model/Year: 1978 C22

Hull No. 8070

Hailing Port:
04/03/2006 12:34 PM Pacific Time

Does anyone know the correct size for the sheave and rope clutch on the rudder? The sheave disintegrated when I took it off and I'm going to have to destroy the rope cluch to get it off (it's worn out anyway).
 
 
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