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Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Maintenance / Keel winch etc.
 
 
Author Keel winch etc.
Raymond
Canberra

Boat Name: Heat Wave

Model/Year: Boomaroo 22

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
01/16/2006 10:59 PM Pacific Time

I decided to check my keel brass ball.

First, I removed the winch handle to gain access by removing the wood behind it.

The handle was rusted in place. So, I used Penetrene and some gentle persuasion with a hammer. This resulted in me being able to screw off the winch handle. However, there was no lock nut on the spindle, which has no thread beyond that needded for the handle. This means that now when I try to winch up the handle screws off. How can I solve this problem?

I found that the spindle for the brass ball was simply a piece of threaded rod (like a screw with the head cut off). One end of this had slipped out of the hole in the tube, and so the ball had jammed. It now has a nice groove cut into it. Looks like I will have to buy a new brass ball.

The top of the hose was jammed with rag - presumably to prevent the ingress of water. Should there be a fitting here? I cannot see one in the Catalina handbook.

Any advice would be much appreciated.

Ray

Canberra
Australia

Bilbo
Youngstown, Ohio

Boat Name: Sea Dog

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1987

Hull No. 13971

Hailing Port: Andover, Ohio
01/17/2006 4:28 AM Pacific Time

Hi Ray,

I suspect that someone has done some home modifying to the boat.
You don't list a year for your boat but on my 1987 Catalina 22 which should be rather similar the crank handle fits over a oval shaped rod end. This means that the crank will work if the screw fastener is lying on the floor and not screwed in. If you wan't it to work like factory, you may need a new winch. Not sure if parts are available. I do think that the winch is made by another company. So I'll leave that for another.

The turning ball has a pivot pin which is not threaded. Your's should be replaced.
They are also using a delrin insert on the replacements to make it turn easier with less friction. This saves the cable.

There should be no need for a rag in that hose if the hose is a proper replacement and you are not overloading the weight of the boat. Here's a hint. That rag won't really stop a boat from sinking if the water is comming in over the hose. It should be a spiral wire-lined hose and it should be the correct length. There shold be only the cable comming out of the top of the hose. I'd probably replace the hose and the two clamps that fasten the hose to the volcano.

BTW: I have a replacement hose and clamps here from CD Direct. It is Shieldsflex II Marine Wet Exhause/Water Certified and is 12 1/2" long. The clamps are of a type that have a smooth inner surface that does not cut the hose or indent it when tightened.

~Bilbo


Greg Guenther
Belleville, IL

Boat Name: Magnificat

Model/Year: 1970

Hull No. 473

Hailing Port: Belleville, IL
01/17/2006 4:37 AM Pacific Time

Ray, My winch handle removes easily, in fact, after I lower the keel I normally take it off completely to get it out of the way in the cabin. If when you try to raise the keel and the handle unscrews, you are cranking it the wrong direction. Mine is set up to raise when you turn the handle clockwise and I will bet yours is the same. It should have a friction lock and when you lower the keel, the winch handle should unscrew a little bit to release the brake allowing the keel to extend. Cranking clockwise applies pressure to the brake and is what keeps the keel in the "up" position.

Greg



Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
01/18/2006 1:27 AM Pacific Time

Ray, when I first got "Chip Ahoy" (1974 vintage) I wanted to remove the panel behind the winch handle. I too had a devil of a time getting that handle off. I finally found a set screw buried under the rust and corrosion where the winch handle connects to the tightening bolt on the winch. As the set screw was regular steel, it too had rusted solid to the handle and before long I had stripped the six-point Allen head, but not before I'd loosened the screw just enough to force the handle off (with a large screwdrive jammed into the winch gear to keep the hub from turning). When I reassembled the winch and handle, I drilled out the set screw hole oversize, retapped it, and used a larger stainless steel set screw.

See: http://www.chipford.com/graphics/winch11.jpg

I was later informed that the set screw wasn't OEM, that some previous owner must have drilled and added it -- that securing the winch handle to the winch defeats the clutch mechanism. Personally, I like the positive up and down control I've become used to.

I've rebuilt and restored my keel winch, increased the hub diameter. I've also replaced the keel cable, hose and turning ball. You can follow my experience and how I did it (with photos) by going to the Chip Ahoy website:

Upgrade, Repair, Restoration and Refinishing Projects
http://www.chipford.com/projects.htm

Scroll down and click on:

Keel Winch Project
-- and --
Keel Cable, Hose, Turning Ball Replacement

BTW, my winch was made by the Fulton Co., model # 560.
See: http://www.chipford.com/graphics/winch07.jpg

Chip Ford --
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" #3282
CTY032820374
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan

Boat Name: Adventuring

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. 1787

Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair
01/18/2006 12:25 PM Pacific Time

The winch should be of the "automatic brake" type to prevent damage/injury if your hand slips off the handle while the keel is being lowered. If not and your hand slips off the handle, the keel will freefall causing the handle to spin. This can possibly damage the boat when the keel bottoms out or cause injury if you try to stop it!

The handle screws clockwise onto the winch shaft and should have nothing to prevent its unscrewing when the handle is turned in the counterclockwise direction.

As the handle is turned clockwise, it screws onto the shaft and "squeezes" a brake disk, preventing the winch from rotating in the counterclockwise direction when the handle is released. There is a "pawl" that should click as the keel is raised.

When the handle is turned in the counterclockwise direction, it unscrews a little, releasing pressure on the brake disk. If the winch is working properly, this releases the drum from the pawl and allows the weight of the keel to turn the winch's drum, lowering the keel. The pawl does not click as the keel is lowered.

Some people have mentioned a "stopper nut" on the end of the winch shaft to prevent the handle from unscrewing completely. I have never seen one & don't know what year it may have been incorporated or if it was added by a previous owner. If installed on an "automatic brake" winch, it should not be screwed on far enough to prevent the handle from unscrewing to release the brake when the handle is turned counterclockwise.

I don't remember off the top of my head which model was originally installed, but it was made by Fulton. I think it was either the K1051 or KX1051 listed at: http://www.fultonperformance.com/products.php?group=77&subgroup=80.

The weight capacity listed bears this out. The model number may have changed slightly through the years.

Several people described modifications to increase the diameter of the drum so it takes fewer turns to raise/lower the keel. The result is fewer turns, but the winch is harder to turn. I believe Catalina Direct sold a replacement winch with a larger drum at one time . They may still stock it.

The bottom line: Be careful if you don't understand how the winch works. Look for the model number and contact the manufacturer for directions and availability of repair parts.
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan

Boat Name: Adventuring

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. 1787

Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair
01/19/2006 1:07 AM Pacific Time

There is one important issue I forgot to point out. Catalina Yachts may have used several model/manufacturer winches or previous owners may have replaced the winch (sometimes with inappropriate models). Some automatic brake winches have the handle clamped tightly between two nuts on the shaft.

I have one of the original winches I plan to take apart in the next few days. I'll take some photos and add them to: http://www.fleet130.org/technotes/keel/index.htm

Again, The bottom line is: If you don't understand how the wench works, don't mess with it!

Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon

Boat Name: Catnip

Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974

Hull No. 4570

Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon
01/19/2006 1:29 PM Pacific Time

Guys, there should be quite a bit already existing here on the clubhouse site on the winch . Peruse the index to find. I think I even put Fultons address on it. Funton sent me a free clutch/brake disc for the asking.
Raymond
Canberra

Boat Name: Heat Wave

Model/Year: Boomaroo 22

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
01/20/2006 12:31 AM Pacific Time

Thank you all very much for the most helpful advice.

Ray
 
 
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Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Maintenance / Keel winch etc.