PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER
FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK
Model/Year: 1990 C22
Hull No.
Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA |
 01/26/2004 8:44 AM Pacific Time
I am considering replacing my Johnson 8HP two stroke which has served me well. I would like to get a four stroke and am considering the Honda 9.9 due to its extra power and great electrical charging abilities. Does anyone else have a Honda 9.9 four stroke and how do they like it? It is significantly heavier (as all the four strokes are) than my two stroke 8Hp and I was wondering if it was still manageable???? I am not a racer and need the power to get out of adverse conditions when cruising so the weight is not an issue as long as it is physically manageable. What do you think? |
Wes Van Nurden
Chippewa Falls, WI
Boat Name: Puddle Jumper
Model/Year: C-22 1982
Hull No. 11164
Hailing Port: Lake Wissota, Chippewa Falls, WI |
01/27/2004 8:22 AM Pacific Time
I guessing that the Honda 9.9 weighs around 100lbs while your Johnson was around 60lbs. That seems to
extra weight to have that is not centered on the boat. I wonder if some ballast would be needed (or could be used) to offset this? Our boat is moored and seems to be pretty well balanced port and starboard. If you really don't need the power the Honda 5 weighs around 60lbs (no experience on the Honda 5 hp if it has enough power). We use a 7.9 2-stroke (Mercury) and have enough power for anything we have encountered. (would be nice to have a charging system to charge the on board battery, but live without it.) .. Just a thought to consider.
Wes Van Nurden
C-22 Puddle Jumper |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
01/28/2004 5:41 AM Pacific Time
I have a 59-pound Tahatsu on my stern; it is too much weight to keep the boat level on its natural water line. That 59 pounds is like a lever (the seesaw effect) so its relative effect is probably greater. It does have charging & electric start, which is nice in a pinch.
The other day the battery was low & I put out my flexible solar panel and noted the charge rate while sailing. When motoring in I noted the voltage gain from the alternator with the solar panel back down below. It appeared either system charged at a similar non-scientific rate. Therefore, a solar panel might be an alternative to an alternator.
My 2 stroke is one of the last ones sold in the US & was bought due to complaints about vibration on the single cylinder 4 strokes. Most of the motor dealers were more pro 2 strokes went I was researching. Tahatsu makes the Nissan & Mercury motors below +/- 10 hp.
I wish my motor was lighter for boat balance & have been considering a C-25 to fit my motor.
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
C 22 #13059
Over Keel
|
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
01/28/2004 7:39 AM Pacific Time
My brothers and I own three sloops between us in the 22-24' range and a handful of outboards, including about 5 Hondas (we're fans!). Four stroke reliability, especially after extended hours at low speed, is worth the extra 30 lbs. in my book.
My 7.5 on the C-22 is an early '80's vintage Honda with magneto trickle charger. The new alternator type is better, but I won't trade my old motor 'cause it's so reliable.
7.5 - 9.9 hps (all hondas) seem to perform about the same on all of our boats , which range 2900-4900 lbs. displacement. Adequate in headwinds, current and chop. Can reach hull speed in calmer water.
5 hp Honda and 6 hp Johnson/Evinrude - adequate in calm waters, but have to work hard in current/chop (especially the 6 on my brother's 4900 lb - full keel sloop).
Less than 5hp - don't bother, unless you're only moving from launch ramp to mooring in calm weather.
It should also be said that you shouldn't compromise on shaft length - longest you can get, because the transom mounts on sailboats really lift high in heavy seas. Actually, I think this is more important than difference in torque between 5 and 10 hp. A prop has to be in good water all the time to deliver the thrust.
Chip Lee |
PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER
FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK
Model/Year: 1990 C22
Hull No.
Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA |
01/29/2004 6:08 PM Pacific Time
Thanks so much for your inputs. Does anyone who has a Honda 9.9 have any idea of fuel consumption (I know that 4 strokes are better than the 2 strokes)? Just was wondering if anyone has actually estimated the gallons per hour or hours per several gallons? |
Paul David
Melbourne Australia
Boat Name: Reflections
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13369
Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia |
01/29/2004 9:56 PM Pacific Time
I should add that if the motor is heavy, you will be unlikely to move it around alot and need to have a good insurance policy. My new Mercury 8hp two stroke was too heavy to move easily, so I left it locked to the boat and it was stolen within three months. I replaced it with another Merc 8, because the 6 weighed almost the same, and now I move it around with a hand cart.
Thinking back I probably should have looked at other lighter brands in a 6. The old group discussed the merits of 4 vs 2 stroke when transporting the motor and generally thought the 2 travelled better, but maybe that applied only to older motors and not the new technology.
Paul |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
01/30/2004 11:59 AM Pacific Time
Philip, I'll ask my brother about his 9.9, but my older 7.5 4-stroke pushes my C-22 fully loaded for a weekend cruise at 5.8 kts at about 1/2 throttle, using a 3-gal tank in about 4-1/2 hours. I would assume a new 9.9 does better than that at the same rpms. I know he was very envious of my fuel consumption when he had his 6hp 2-stroke.
I got a 6-gal tank for my Canadian cruise this summer and only filled it twice in August. Going back to the 3-gal tank for everyday use so the gas doesn't go stale. |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
02/04/2004 8:37 PM Pacific Time
It is interesting to see how many of you have big engines on your boats. In the past I've brought 4 boats back from the Ensenada race. 1- 24' and 3- 25' keel boats. This is about 140 miles all upwind. All boats had an Evinrude 6 h.p, mounted. All moved at hull speed. What are you guys doing? waterskiing behind your boats? In my mind what is needed is a small alternator that can be retrofitted to any motor. |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
02/05/2004 8:53 AM Pacific Time
Dick, I think the trouble with the four strokes is they don't hit the rpm's the two strokes do at nominal "1/2, 3/4, full" throttle.
So four stroke engines end up pushing a tougher prop load (greater pitch) to achieve the same hull speed as a two stroke.
This is pure speculation, on my part. I'm no propulsion engineer, so I'd like to hear from others on this, but it seems like this causes people to go for a little more hp in four stroke to achieve the same thing as a smaller two stoke does.
For example: I had a 2hp two stroke outboard on my canoe. My brother had a 2hp honda on his. My motor at full throttle could leave his in the dust, but his would idle all day without fouling the plugs. Additionally, if we trolled out from our camp on our normal route and back, I would have to fill my 1 liter tank at about the halfway point, while he could go out and back on a single 0.8 liter tank, and still have a little left when he got back. He still likes to kid me about that.
The downsides of four strokes are weight, cost and maybe speed (but not really on displacement hulls), the upsides are fuel economy, reliability and less stuff in the water and air.
Love your alternator idea, by the way. How could we design a universal drive for it? Something that meshes with the flywheel teeth with an adjustable bracket? Boy this would be great for those of us who can't afford the extra $400 for a full alternator outboard, or who have older, smaller ob's with no options. |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
02/05/2004 11:35 AM Pacific Time
Let me join your discussion with a different type of quesiton, I have a 1993 6HP Mercury outboard that works very well but needs some maintenance this spring.
Could someone recommend the full list of things that should be done besides spark plug replacement?
I would like to do it myself and save a couple of bucks versus bringing it to the shop. Thanks.
-Art |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
02/05/2004 11:45 AM Pacific Time
Chip While I agree with you about the weight of a 4 cycle, that to me is the only drawback -- well maybe a little vibration at higher RPM. I find that my 6HP Nissan will push the boat at hull speed at about 3/4 throttle. It runs forever on a carb of gas and is heavenly quiet. Unless you are a racer, looking for anyway at all to reduce the weight of the boat, I highly recommend a 4 stroke outboard. The Nissan/Mercury/Tohatsu 6 HP all weigh about 57 lbs. While that is a lot heavier than the equivalent 2 strokes, not having to mix gas is worth the extra weight. |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
02/05/2004 1:43 PM Pacific Time
Boy, Dick they really have improved the weight! My old 7.5 4-stroke is almost exactly 100 lbs. I'm sure I can find this on the Nissan site, but do they have an alternator on 6's?
I've got the old magneto-jumper they used to put on Hondas. It'll run my lights ok if my battery dies on the way home, but forget about it bringing the battery to full charge, even if i run 30 miles under power.
I looked at the new Honda 8's, but was scared away by the price. Maybe next year... |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
02/05/2004 4:06 PM Pacific Time
If you want a smaller 4 stroke engine with 2 cylinders, take a look at the Yamaha 6HP. It has a 6 amp alternator and weighs 83lb. Yamaha claims that the 4 strokes get about 30% better mileage than the 2 strokes. You can offset the increased motor weight by carrying less gas (8 lb/gal) |
Lowell Richardson, Owner, Catalina Direct
Sacramento CA
Boat Name: Steamboat Willie
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Folsom Lake |
02/06/2004 12:22 AM Pacific Time
Art,
Why don't you start another discussion like "Two Stroke Annual Maintenance" within the "Engine" topic. Then copy your last post there. I'll bet we can create a good maintenance list.
I'll delete your original message in a couple of days.
Please edit your profile also so we know your boat and hailing port.
Lowell |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
02/06/2004 4:16 PM Pacific Time
Just a question that occured to me. You CAN run a 4 stroke continuously at full throttle can't you? Thats the only speen those sixes knew on the 25's I mentioned above. And Art where ever you are, I have a whole stack of outboard motor manuals that I've purchased at used book stores. Buy some and get your feet wet. Outboards are really pretty simple if you have an impact driver. |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
02/06/2004 5:19 PM Pacific Time
I own a 5ph Honda that was used on a 17' sailboat and moved it along rather well. I never got into a lot of heavy water but have will say that with heavy wind it definitely slows down. What I like is no smoke and oil smell, fantastic gas mileage(little used), reliability, quiet, can run all day at slow or full speed without problems. Now will it do alright on my C22? I'll just have to wait and make comments on that later. I also have an older Johnson that came with my boat that I will probably sell as I would rather keep my Honda since I live on an inland lake where I can push the boat off the dock but still need a little help getting back into the dock at times. |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
02/10/2004 5:12 AM Pacific Time
Dick, sure you can run a 4-stroke at full throttle, but when I ran mine that way on the C22, the vibration and noise weren't worth the extra 1/2 knot I got, plus the gas mileage goes down.
Somewhere between 1/2 and 3/4, the weight of the boat reduces the rate of return, plus I worry about the wear-and-tear on the transom and motor mounts, especially in waves.
But yeah, you can... |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
02/11/2004 10:38 PM Pacific Time
But see Chip; you're kinda proving my point. If I use a small, light motor and run it at full throttle, it is noisy and vibrates. If I use a bigger ,heavier motor and only use it at half throttle, it's better except ..........You can't have your cake and eat it too. |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
02/12/2004 6:19 AM Pacific Time
Well, there you have it, Dick. The only solution is a fair wind...
Here's to many days of that! |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
02/14/2004 9:16 AM Pacific Time
We've probably exhausted this thread, but in the buy/sell thread, Doug suggested a visit to the catalina 25 owner's assoc. site, where a discussion of 4-strokes is also going on. Thanks, Doug. I'm primarily a freshwater sailor, but those who are saltwater should look at this site because there are apparently problems with Hondas and electrolysis. |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
02/16/2004 10:48 PM Pacific Time
Chip. Exacty what is the address of this Cat. 25 site you mention? We met a 50 or 60 ish woman over at the coast this weekend who has been rebuilding what was a real basket case 25 and she is doing a job that would put anyone to shame. She has no contacts and has never heard of Catalina Direct. I'd like to put her in touch of help and advice. Thanks |
PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER
FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK
Model/Year: 1990 C22
Hull No.
Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA |
02/17/2004 9:59 PM Pacific Time
It is the Catalina 25 National Association site. Just check into the forums section. I have found it to be an excellent forum site with tons of useful information much of which pertains to C22s.
|
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
02/18/2004 2:59 PM Pacific Time
The site is http://www.catalina25-250.org/
Chip |
Chad Vicknair
New Orleans, LA
Boat Name: Hope Floats
Model/Year: 1975
Hull No. CTYH66727M76L
Hailing Port: Lake Pontchartrain, New Orleans |
04/08/2004 8:30 PM Pacific Time
I have a Yamaha 4hp 4-stroke. Very quite, very fuel efficient and my boat reaches hull speed at less than 1/2 throttle. Chad |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
04/09/2004 5:03 AM Pacific Time
How many cylinders does your 4HP Yamaha have, and how smooth is it when running? Some on the list were disappointed in the vibration of a single cylinder 5 or 6HP.
I'm surprised you get hull speed (5.9 knots) with a 4HP at partial throttle. I was under the impression that 5HP was the minimum HP that would get hull speed.
Sounds lke a great little motor! |
Chip Lee
Utica, NY
Boat Name: Martha Pearl
Model/Year: 1980 C-22
Hull No. #9742
Hailing Port: Black River Bay, NY |
04/09/2004 9:21 AM Pacific Time
Chad, do you carry much extra weight in your boat? If you can get that out of a 4hp, maybe I should be looking at those as well.
I'm guessing I have about 400 lbs. of stuff on board, and my 7.5hp pushes it fine, including headwinds and waves (which is the norm from my marina).
Considering my brother's 23' with 4200 lbs displacement has trouble with a 6hp, I figured that 6 was about the lowest I could go in an overloaded C-22.
Chip Lee |
Jack Kernel
Miami
Boat Name: Any
Model/Year: Any
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
05/24/2004 9:04 PM Pacific Time
I am about to purchase a new Catalina 18’. (Sorry, but do not have enough dock space for a 22'). :-(
With it, contemplating on a 5HP 4-stroke Honda outboard or a 6HP Suzuki.
I live in Miami near Haulover cut. Weather permiting, Intending to use the boat out on the ocean and in the dark often.
Keeping the Steaming lights and the radio and fish / depth finder on, I am concerned with keeping the battery charged.
Question:
Buying an optional alternator with the outboard motor, would that be the most care free best way to go?
Which of the above two motors is the better and more practical to have on this boat?
Also, how much if any faster would the 6HP Suzuki push the boat than the 5HP Honda?
Last but not least is it a good idea of mounting the Transducer of the Fish / Depth finder on the transom opposite side from the motor?
I would greatly appreciate comments and suggestions from all you experienced Catalina owners.
My Email address is [email protected].
Thanks,
Jack K.
|
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
05/25/2004 8:24 PM Pacific Time
The Catalina 22 needs 5-6HP to reach hull speed (5.9 knots). I see no reason to get the 6HP for the 18 unless it has features that you need (ie alternator). I believe that the stern light, bow light, and steaming light are 10 W each, so they would require about 2.5 amps. The outboard alternators generally put out 6 amps at full throttle, and could power your lights or recharge the battery. Another option is solar panels. It depends on how much motoring you would do vs. how much sunlight you get. |
Joe Novello
Newport, Oregon
Boat Name: Tenderly
Model/Year: 1977
Hull No. 7259
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
09/12/2004 6:10 AM Pacific Time
Dick,
I just purchased a C22 without a motor and will be using the boat primarily in Yaquina Bay. I curious about what size motor you use on your boat here in the bay. |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
09/13/2004 6:30 AM Pacific Time
The ideal size motor for a Catalina 22 is about 5-6 HP. Anything less will leave you underpowered in adverse wind or wave conditions. Anything more will be too much for your back or weight on the transom. I have a Nissan 4 stroke 6 HP that weighs about 60 lbs. It pushed the boat to hull speed at about 3/4 throttle. |
David J. Pierce
Sunset, Louisiana
Boat Name: Little Miracles
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No. 12822
Hailing Port: Cypermort Point, Louisiana |
09/13/2004 4:56 PM Pacific Time
I have the Honda 8 HP and it pushes mine just fine. It starts easy and is not too heavy. The motor also has a battery charger output to battery while the motor is running. The charger does not get used much since the motor is only run long enough to clear the landing but it is there if I need it. |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
09/13/2004 9:47 PM Pacific Time
Note to Joe Novello in Newport Oregon. I've been looking for another 22 in the area. Please contact me at [email protected] |
PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER
FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK
Model/Year: 1990 C22
Hull No.
Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA |
06/09/2005 11:51 PM Pacific Time
Preventative Maintenance For New Honda Four Stroke Engines: It seems the majoroity of people with Honda four stroke engines are happy with them. I for one, love my new 9.9. However, most everyone knows there are two negative aspects of the newer Honda four stroke engines. One is that they are large and heavy for their individual horsepower rating but you can't do anything about that except buy a smaller engine than you want. The other significant problem is that the jets in their carburetors are so small that they clog too easily. Solution: frequent users of their engines should filter their gas and use a gas stabilizer such as "Stabil" AT ALL TIMES. Infrequent users of their engines need to use the gas stabilizer and also need to clear their carburetor before each prolonged period of inactivity. The recommended and proven method of doing this is: 1) Run all the gas out of the motor; 2) REMOVE and drain the carburetor drain screw (just loosening it is not enough); 3) Spray a good dose of "CRC Cleaner/Degreaser" (for Marine applications) up into the carburetor via the drain screw hole and allow it to drain back out (in effect washing out the carburetor); 4) (a recommended but optional step if possible) spray compressed air through the carb drain screw hole essentially drying out the carburetor. I have had problems and now that I follow the above recommendations I have had no more problems.
PS: If you neglect your carburetor and the idle jets end up clogged don't despair --- the engine will still run with the choke slightly pulled out all the time. I managed to get by for an entire two week cruise in the Keys that way. |
John Flato
Houston
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No. 12030
Hailing Port: Shoreacres, TX |
06/10/2005 10:18 AM Pacific Time
I just had my 2 stoke 2 yr old Mercury worked on by Meeks Outboard Serivice in Kemah. They only service and do not sell outboards. When I mentioned to the owner that I was thinking of buying a 4 stroke, he said that they have a lot of maintence problems due to the complexity of the 4 stroke design and if they are not used regularly they get fouled. Fuel stabilizer is a must. He said for infrequent use, you are much better off with a 2 stroke.
John Flato
Houston |
John Flato
Houston
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No. 12030
Hailing Port: Shoreacres, TX |
06/10/2005 10:19 AM Pacific Time
That was 20 year old Mercury |
