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Author Rope instead of wire for keel cable?
Paul David
Melbourne Australia

Boat Name: Reflections

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13369

Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia
04/17/2006 4:37 AM Pacific Time

Someone asked me this and I thought I'd pass it on to you.

I replaced my stainless keel cable about 4 years ago after the previous cable failed. The boat was moored in shallow water and therefore the heel hit the sand before doing any damage.

I am thinking of replacing it soon and was thinking about using rope. I read about some guys doing this on a J22 and it sounds reasonable.

I was thinking of using that high tensile stuff they use on trailer winches.

The pros are that wear would be easy to pick up, cost (particularly not having to by the stainless fitting that fixes to the keel) and you could replace it every other year without too much drama.

Would it breach class rules ?.

How would you attach it to the keel ?.

Any thoughts ?.

Regards

Stephen Long
Dick King
Melbourne, FL

Boat Name: Twilight Zone

Model/Year: Sport/2005

Hull No. 15546

Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL
04/17/2006 11:22 PM Pacific Time

The class rule C2 states "Retractable keels shall have the cable attached .... It doesn't say anything about the cable being replaced with line.

I think a line would add more drag than a stainless cable.
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA

Boat Name: SAILYNN

Model/Year: SWING 1984

Hull No. 11994

Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA
04/19/2006 9:44 PM Pacific Time

I'm pretty sure that would be against class rules. There's a provision about changing rigging to anything to other than factory standards. I think a cable to the keel is considered rigging. It's already been ruled you can't disconnect it while racing so I don't think they would let you change specification. I don't think the C22 NSA Chief Measurer would allow it.
Paul David
Melbourne Australia

Boat Name: Reflections

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13369

Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia
04/19/2006 11:34 PM Pacific Time

Safety was more on my mind than rules. My guess is that the rope would chafe on the turning ball, or be too small to enable it to fit in the slot in the ball, and that a splice or knot would be less safe than a swaged wire at the terminal to the keel.

Paul
Bilbo
Youngstown, Ohio

Boat Name: Sea Dog

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1987

Hull No. 13971

Hailing Port: Andover, Ohio
04/20/2006 6:09 AM Pacific Time

I see no advantage in using the rope. I would think that to have a comparable strength of rope, it'd need to be larger than the wire cable and that it would wear quicker than the wire.

If the wire cable is wearing fast, it could be chafing on something. I found my turning ball jammed with mud from dirty water buildup and this was causing the cable to fray. My solution so far is to replace the turning ball.

I have heard the cable also frays on the winch, particularly the older style winch with the smaller spool diameter. This can happen too if one loosens the cable at the point where the keel is at the bottom and then the wraps of the cable aren't neat.
Bilbo
Youngstown, Ohio

Boat Name: Sea Dog

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1987

Hull No. 13971

Hailing Port: Andover, Ohio
04/20/2006 6:21 AM Pacific Time

Another point, does the J22 have a swing keel option or were those guys pulling your leg?

The only info that I've found is that the fixed keel weighs 700lbs.
Dick King
Melbourne, FL

Boat Name: Twilight Zone

Model/Year: Sport/2005

Hull No. 15546

Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL
04/20/2006 7:15 AM Pacific Time

Hi Paul- I missed the obvious error in your post. The J22 is a fixed keel boat with a draft of 3' 8".. In fact it is so fixed, that the class rules require a whole series of measurements to keep it "legal." Check out the procedure here:
http://www.usaj22.com/pdfs/keel_measurement.pdf
Paul David
Melbourne Australia

Boat Name: Reflections

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13369

Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia
04/20/2006 11:11 PM Pacific Time

Thanks, all. I just copied the message - I didn't write it. It's possible that they are referring to a "Jedda 22" which is a locally built boat.

Paul
Pat Noonan
Fairhope, Al

Boat Name: Blue Dog

Model/Year: ?

Hull No. ?

Hailing Port: Fairhope, Al
09/11/2008 7:27 PM Pacific Time

I was thinking of replacing the wire on my boat also, the rope sold now is very small diameter and equal in strength to wire, while being more flexible. Had replaced my wire halyards and topping lift on my Columbia 8.7 and the prof. rigger used rope. On the topping lift the line was so small in diameter that when the wind blew it created a "guitar string effect" and hummed unbearably. Had to have him go back and use the larger diameter wire. Have also thought of replacing the shrouds with the rope....?
Glenn Warner
Jacksonville Florida

Boat Name: Goblin/JuJu

Model/Year: 1981/1972

Hull No. 10369/1222

Hailing Port: Jacksonville Florida
09/12/2008 2:54 AM Pacific Time

I would be concerned with abrasion resistance more than strength properties of rope. I would also look at shock loading as the keel touches bottom and possibly bounces.
Synthetic standing rigging is the norm on modern racing sailboats. Google PBO rigging, do a search on Sailing Anarchy, or check one of the on line companies that sells rigging like Lay Line or APS. If you race one design you better give David Hayslip a call and feel him out on it. My suspicion is it is not legal for one design racing. If strictly legal it no doubt is against the spirit of the rules.
Bob Keim
Nashville

Boat Name: Pursuit

Model/Year: C22/1976

Hull No.

Hailing Port: Nashville
09/12/2008 6:06 AM Pacific Time

I absolutely disagree with Glenn. Here is the section of the rules about keel cables...

"G. RUNNING RIGGING

1. Unless otherwise specified or limited, running rigging will remain open.

2. The keel cable will be considered running rigging but must remain unmodified and attached to the keel cable winch at all times while racing."

The rules come right out and state that the keel cable is running rigging, which will remain open. The only rule about it is that it be attached to the keel cable winch and the keel at the same points as came from the factory.
Glenn Warner
Jacksonville Florida

Boat Name: Goblin/JuJu

Model/Year: 1981/1972

Hull No. 10369/1222

Hailing Port: Jacksonville Florida
09/12/2008 6:21 PM Pacific Time

Bob, changing from wire to rope sounds "unmodified" to you? I think it is against the spirit of the rule and will therefore use a standard unmodified keel cable on my boats. However, I can't imagine I would ever filing a protest related to this. One of the problems with having very loose one design rules is that it allows such broad interpretations.
Bill Parsons
Gulf Breeze, FL

Boat Name: Liki Tiki

Model/Year: C-22/1976

Hull No. 6095

Hailing Port: Pensacola Beach, FL
10/24/2011 5:13 PM Pacific Time

I won't pretend to know the rules associated with using it for racing, but I recently replaced my cable with rope. I'm a parasail captain so I used what came to mind, Spectra. The stuff's incredibly strong and designed to survive the chafing associated with roughly six thousand pounds of constant pressure as it comes across a rollerhead and onto the winch. It's lasted all summer with no hint of wear and is considerably easier than the cable to deal with. I simply removed the Turning Ball and left the pin to act as a pivot. Add to this the fact that my boat no longer moans at higher speeds, I'm happy.
gregg kuthe
Kalamazoo

Boat Name: Summer Breeze

Model/Year: 309 2007

Hull No. 92

Hailing Port: South Haven,MI
10/24/2011 5:13 PM Pacific Time

I won't pretend to know the rules associated with using it for racing, but I recently replaced my cable with rope. I'm a parasail captain so I used what came to mind, Spectra. The stuff's incredibly strong and designed to survive the chafing associated with roughly six thousand pounds of constant pressure as it comes across a rollerhead and onto the winch. It's lasted all summer with no hint of wear and is considerably easier than the cable to deal with. I simply removed the Turning Ball and left the pin to act as a pivot. Add to this the fact that my boat no longer moans at higher speeds, I'm happy.
 
 
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