Paul David Melbourne Australia
Boat Name: Reflections
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13369
Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia |
04/17/2006 4:37 AM Pacific Time
Someone asked me this and I thought I'd pass it on to you.
I replaced my stainless keel cable about 4 years ago after the previous cable failed. The boat was moored in shallow water and therefore the heel hit the sand before doing any damage.
I am thinking of replacing it soon and was thinking about using rope. I read about some guys doing this on a J22 and it sounds reasonable.
I was thinking of using that high tensile stuff they use on trailer winches.
The pros are that wear would be easy to pick up, cost (particularly not having to by the stainless fitting that fixes to the keel) and you could replace it every other year without too much drama.
Would it breach class rules ?.
How would you attach it to the keel ?.
Any thoughts ?.
Regards
Stephen Long |
Dick King Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
04/17/2006 11:22 PM Pacific Time
The class rule C2 states "Retractable keels shall have the cable attached .... It doesn't say anything about the cable being replaced with line.
I think a line would add more drag than a stainless cable. |
Lynn Buchanan Nevada City, CA
Boat Name: SAILYNN
Model/Year: SWING 1984
Hull No. 11994
Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA |
04/19/2006 9:44 PM Pacific Time
I'm pretty sure that would be against class rules. There's a provision about changing rigging to anything to other than factory standards. I think a cable to the keel is considered rigging. It's already been ruled you can't disconnect it while racing so I don't think they would let you change specification. I don't think the C22 NSA Chief Measurer would allow it. |
Paul David Melbourne Australia
Boat Name: Reflections
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13369
Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia |
04/19/2006 11:34 PM Pacific Time
Safety was more on my mind than rules. My guess is that the rope would chafe on the turning ball, or be too small to enable it to fit in the slot in the ball, and that a splice or knot would be less safe than a swaged wire at the terminal to the keel.
Paul |
Bilbo Youngstown, Ohio
Boat Name: Sea Dog
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1987
Hull No. 13971
Hailing Port: Andover, Ohio |
04/20/2006 6:09 AM Pacific Time
I see no advantage in using the rope. I would think that to have a comparable strength of rope, it'd need to be larger than the wire cable and that it would wear quicker than the wire.
If the wire cable is wearing fast, it could be chafing on something. I found my turning ball jammed with mud from dirty water buildup and this was causing the cable to fray. My solution so far is to replace the turning ball.
I have heard the cable also frays on the winch, particularly the older style winch with the smaller spool diameter. This can happen too if one loosens the cable at the point where the keel is at the bottom and then the wraps of the cable aren't neat. |
Bilbo Youngstown, Ohio
Boat Name: Sea Dog
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1987
Hull No. 13971
Hailing Port: Andover, Ohio |
04/20/2006 6:21 AM Pacific Time
Another point, does the J22 have a swing keel option or were those guys pulling your leg?
The only info that I've found is that the fixed keel weighs 700lbs. |
Dick King Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
04/20/2006 7:15 AM Pacific Time
Hi Paul- I missed the obvious error in your post. The J22 is a fixed keel boat with a draft of 3' 8".. In fact it is so fixed, that the class rules require a whole series of measurements to keep it "legal." Check out the procedure here:
http://www.usaj22.com/pdfs/keel_measurement.pdf |
Paul David Melbourne Australia
Boat Name: Reflections
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13369
Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia |
04/20/2006 11:11 PM Pacific Time
Thanks, all. I just copied the message - I didn't write it. It's possible that they are referring to a "Jedda 22" which is a locally built boat.
Paul |
Pat Noonan Fairhope, Al
Boat Name: Blue Dog
Model/Year: ?
Hull No. ?
Hailing Port: Fairhope, Al |
09/11/2008 7:27 PM Pacific Time
I was thinking of replacing the wire on my boat also, the rope sold now is very small diameter and equal in strength to wire, while being more flexible. Had replaced my wire halyards and topping lift on my Columbia 8.7 and the prof. rigger used rope. On the topping lift the line was so small in diameter that when the wind blew it created a "guitar string effect" and hummed unbearably. Had to have him go back and use the larger diameter wire. Have also thought of replacing the shrouds with the rope....? |
Glenn Warner Jacksonville Florida
Boat Name: Goblin/JuJu
Model/Year: 1981/1972
Hull No. 10369/1222
Hailing Port: Jacksonville Florida |
09/12/2008 2:54 AM Pacific Time
I would be concerned with abrasion resistance more than strength properties of rope. I would also look at shock loading as the keel touches bottom and possibly bounces.
Synthetic standing rigging is the norm on modern racing sailboats. Google PBO rigging, do a search on Sailing Anarchy, or check one of the on line companies that sells rigging like Lay Line or APS. If you race one design you better give David Hayslip a call and feel him out on it. My suspicion is it is not legal for one design racing. If strictly legal it no doubt is against the spirit of the rules. |
Bob Keim Nashville
Boat Name: Pursuit
Model/Year: C22/1976
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Nashville |
09/12/2008 6:06 AM Pacific Time
I absolutely disagree with Glenn. Here is the section of the rules about keel cables...
"G. RUNNING RIGGING
1. Unless otherwise specified or limited, running rigging will remain open.
2. The keel cable will be considered running rigging but must remain unmodified and attached to the keel cable winch at all times while racing."
The rules come right out and state that the keel cable is running rigging, which will remain open. The only rule about it is that it be attached to the keel cable winch and the keel at the same points as came from the factory. |
Glenn Warner Jacksonville Florida
Boat Name: Goblin/JuJu
Model/Year: 1981/1972
Hull No. 10369/1222
Hailing Port: Jacksonville Florida |
09/12/2008 6:21 PM Pacific Time
Bob, changing from wire to rope sounds "unmodified" to you? I think it is against the spirit of the rule and will therefore use a standard unmodified keel cable on my boats. However, I can't imagine I would ever filing a protest related to this. One of the problems with having very loose one design rules is that it allows such broad interpretations. |
Bill Parsons Gulf Breeze, FL
Boat Name: Liki Tiki
Model/Year: C-22/1976
Hull No. 6095
Hailing Port: Pensacola Beach, FL |
10/24/2011 5:13 PM Pacific Time
I won't pretend to know the rules associated with using it for racing, but I recently replaced my cable with rope. I'm a parasail captain so I used what came to mind, Spectra. The stuff's incredibly strong and designed to survive the chafing associated with roughly six thousand pounds of constant pressure as it comes across a rollerhead and onto the winch. It's lasted all summer with no hint of wear and is considerably easier than the cable to deal with. I simply removed the Turning Ball and left the pin to act as a pivot. Add to this the fact that my boat no longer moans at higher speeds, I'm happy. |
gregg kuthe Kalamazoo
Boat Name: Summer Breeze
Model/Year: 309 2007
Hull No. 92
Hailing Port: South Haven,MI |
10/24/2011 5:13 PM Pacific Time
I won't pretend to know the rules associated with using it for racing, but I recently replaced my cable with rope. I'm a parasail captain so I used what came to mind, Spectra. The stuff's incredibly strong and designed to survive the chafing associated with roughly six thousand pounds of constant pressure as it comes across a rollerhead and onto the winch. It's lasted all summer with no hint of wear and is considerably easier than the cable to deal with. I simply removed the Turning Ball and left the pin to act as a pivot. Add to this the fact that my boat no longer moans at higher speeds, I'm happy. |