Tom Conway
Beverly, MA
Boat Name: Sea Change II
Model/Year: Catalina 22/ 1988
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Salem, MA |
 03/12/2004 11:26 AM Pacific Time
I am interested in buying either a boomkicker or a topping lift. I currently have only a pigtail on the backstay to prevent the boom from falling into the cockpit. It seems that either a boomkicker or a topping lift would allow for easier single-handing and could also prevent accidents. I'm leaning towards the boomkicker because of its ease of use. Can anyone recommend the use of one? Any information would be helpful.
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Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/12/2004 1:45 PM Pacific Time
If your only reason is to keep the boom from falling into the cockpit, I would recommend a topping lift. It is cheap, simple and very easy to install, (if you are comfortable with laying the mast down. On the other hand, I installed a boom kicker and love it. But I race the boat and I like being able to adjust the position of the boom and the tension on the mainsail leech. The only thing I don't like about the Boom Kicker, is that when I loose my balance and grab for the boom, the boom kicker will not hold up the boom with my weight on it. If you are a cruiser, I recommend you go with the topping lift. If you plan to race the boat, I recommend you spend the time and money and install a BoomKicker. |
Ken Palmer
Franklin, TN.
Boat Name: "Last Penny"
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 10475
Hailing Port: PPYC |
03/12/2004 2:11 PM Pacific Time
Here is a boom lift that will not break the bank
hope it helps
http://www.members.tripod.com/fleet47/boom_lift.htm |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
03/25/2004 3:44 PM Pacific Time
Dick King:
I have a boom kicker installed on my boat as well and I understand your statement about having the ability to manage leach tension.
I installed my boom kicker according to the manufacturer’s instructions. Nevertheless, I see that installing the part that attaches to the boom more forward toward the mast than what the manufacturer instructs, would lift the boom and hence loosen up the leech when no vang is applied. In the position that I have this part on my boom, there is some lift, but what I consider only a negligible amount.
I am curious to know just how you installed your boom kicker. That is, did you possibly move that part on the boom more forward to gain some additional lift from the boom kicker, or did you just follow the instructions as I did.
Further, does using the boom kicker to lift the boom aid in inducing sail twist on the main, or does it produce a more uniform effect upon the leech?
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Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/26/2004 5:29 AM Pacific Time
Hi Bayard- I will have to get the mainsail out of the boat and unroll it off the boom to get you the boom fitting position. I will be back in touch.
As to the leech when the vang tension is released, both happen. I get a nice cureve in the leach which opens the leach more at the top. The main thing the boomkicker does in light air is to counterbalance the weight of the boom to keep it from closing the leach and creating drag for the air coming off the mainsail. I adjust the vang, until the telltales on the leach at the batten pockets flow aft. |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
03/26/2004 5:10 PM Pacific Time
What I am hearing is that if you install the boomkicker you still need the vang. Is that true? What about at the end of the day and you wish to raise the hatch. Do both of these have to be removed?? Dick R. |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
03/26/2004 5:34 PM Pacific Time
Thank you Dick King.
I am also wondering if with a boom kicker, loose vang, and loose out haul, the foot of a loose footed main may curve better than the foot of a main with a bolt rope in the boom.
I conceive that the clew as it is raised by the boom kicker, travels in an upward arc and while the distance between the tack and the clew does not change, the distance between the clew and the mast is reduced allowing more of a curve shape into the sail area directly above the foot.
This sounds logical to me, but maybe this effect does not happen in practice.
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Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
03/26/2004 6:06 PM Pacific Time
Dick Reynolds:
Yes, you definitely need a boom vang with a boom kicker. In my opinion the vang should have at least a four to one purchase as one needs power to bend the fiberglass rods of the boom kicker. (My particular vang is four to one, however, the fiddle block with the cam cleat on it to secure the boom vang line is located on the mast thereby producing about an extra half turn on the “moving part” of the vang and thereby raising the purchase from four to one to about four and one half to one.)
By raise the hatch, I assume you are referring to raising the pop top.
The Boom Kicker has a quick pin on the part that attaches to the mast. The upper part attaches to the boom by sliding into an open slot. Hence, to install the boom kicker, you just slide the upper part into the bracket on the boom, and then slip the lower part onto the mast bracket securing it there by inserting a quick pin. Removal is simply the reverse.
Yes, to raise the pop top, you will need to remove the boom kicker, but an easy process as just described.
When raising the pop top, the boom vang needs only be removed from the mast, a process made simple by installing a snap shackle onto the fiddle block that attaches to the mast which also easily converts the boom vang to a preventer. |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/26/2004 7:36 PM Pacific Time
Hi Bayard - I hate to disagree with your statements about the purchase on the boom vang. But---If the cam cleat is located on the mast, the line pulling against the last sheave before the cam cleat does not add any mechanical advantage. It is only changing direction around that last sheave. If, on the other hand, the end of the vang with the cam cleat is hanging on the boom, the line around the last sheave is actually helping to pull the boom down and is adding one more purchase to the block and tackle system. Assuming both fiddle blocks have two sheaves, if the becket and the cam cleat are on the upper block, the system has a 5 to 1 purchase. If you hang the block and tackle so the becket and cam cleat is on the bottom, you only have a 4 to 1 system. On Jagged Edge, we hang the block with the cam cleat from the boom. Not only due we get an extra purchase, but the control line is easier to reach as it hangs directly above the companionway.
With regard to hanging on the BoomKicker, I find it a lot easier to attach the mast end first and then lift the boom to slide the upper end into the slot. That way, the BoomKicker doesn't fall out of the boom slot, while you are trying to line up the lower end and pin it in place.
ust My Opinion. |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
03/27/2004 5:22 PM Pacific Time
Oops! My error.
I meant to say that the fiddle block with the cam cleat is mounted on the boom and not mast as I foolishly wrote earlier.
I mount my vang the same way as you do Dick.
And if you say that with the becket, as I have, it is five to one, then I guess it is inappropriate to consider that last turn before the cam as a half turn and as such makes a four and one half purchase. |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/27/2004 6:12 PM Pacific Time
Hi Bayard- I give that last turn to the cam as continuing down to your hand (or in my case, forward to another block and then down to the mainsheet block mounted on a C channel across the cockpit, between the seats), a full part. After all, it is pulling down on the boom. Hey, give the tackle the full benefit of all the purchase it deserves. |
Lance Anderson
Kenai, Alaska
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 2367
Hailing Port: Kenai, Alaska |
03/30/2004 3:07 AM Pacific Time
I installed a boomkicker last year. I would call myself a cruiser but that is not to say that I do not appriciate some decent sail control. I highly recommend this addition.
some points:
- Everyone needs a vang. The quick disconnect is the ticket -for preventer use also
-I started out to install mine per instructions but the boom seemed to sag-I ended up setting mine up so that the boom is just above horizontal with the wieght of the sail on it. I then keep the vang snug enough to keep the boomkicker from jumping out of its slot.
-I sail in the morning then we stop at an island for lunch and some hiking. I drop the kicker and the vang and raise the pop-top-not a big deal
-I have been known to more often than not leave the foot of my sail out of the boom. The ability to properly shape the mainsail on my old boat drastically increases. I don't do it if I will need to raise and lower the sail a bunch. It does'nt stay on the boom well and ends up in the cockpit(yes I need to add something there)
If you have'nt left the foot out of your boom you need to try it!
When you break it down-bang for the buck-the boomkicker is a great deal. Keep in mingd that you WILL need a vang setup. But even if you don't get a boomkicker at least start with the vang.
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Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
04/02/2004 5:47 PM Pacific Time
Lance:
Thank you for your comments.
The statement you made about the weight of the sail I think is key to properly setting up the boom kicker. I think I remember considering this when installing my boom kicker, but I never bothered weighing the main to add something that weighted as much as it did when test fitting the parts together.
Were I to install a heavier main, either in cloth weight or due to full battens, then I think I would be forced to move forward the Boom Kicker boom attachment.
I was wondering if you know the distance between the forward aide of the boom fitting and the aft side of the mast on your Boom Kicker? This is the same information I am seeking from Dick King. I would surely like to know how both of you set up your boom kickers so I could compare it to my own. I have the impression that you both are achieving better main sail shape control from your Boom Kicker than I potentially just due to where you attach the boom fitting. However, I may also be just be simply using it improperly.
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Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
12/04/2004 11:42 PM Pacific Time
Regarding the topping lift, must the mast be lowered to connect the topping lift to the mast head? Is it possible, please don't laugh, to shimmy up or use one of the chair type devices to climb the mast? I would like to have a topping lift but would prefer not to have to take the boat out of the water to do so. Suggestions? Okay, you can laugh now...
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Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
12/06/2004 6:58 AM Pacific Time
Hi Gary,
if I was you I would try to lower the mast to tie up the end of the topping lift. I've done it with my boat in the water with my friends and would imagine that it was safer than climbing the mast. I use the mast stepping device from CD and a simple line with block combination to secure the end of the furler. I always try to have 2 friends with me.
One more thing, there is more stuff at the top of your mast to take care of and it will be beneficial for you to get used to lowering the mast the safe and easy way. Good luck.
"Spirit" #13485 |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
12/06/2004 7:02 AM Pacific Time
If you have a place where you can careen the boat (a dock or a shallow beach area) - Get a couple of friends to help - Wrap a halyard around the top of the mast (to prevent a side load on the masthead sheaves) and attach the mainsheet block and tackle to the end of the halyard.. Attach the other end of the tackle to a nearby piling or post about thirty feet abeam of the mast. Take in on the mainsheet and the boat will roll over on its beam. When the masthead is low enough to reach, attach a small block and line for the topping lift to the same pin as the back stay or tie the upper end of the line you plan to use as a topping lift, to the pin. Release the mainsheet and let the boat roll upright again.
I have used this procedure a couple of times to retrieve run away halyards and to clean the bottom. It works. |
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
12/06/2004 12:36 PM Pacific Time
Dick,
it sounds like a very useful procedure. Just one thing, should one have the swing keel lowered while doing this to prevent the boat from rolling accidently too much and taking water? |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
12/07/2004 7:38 AM Pacific Time
The swing keel should be UP. Even with it up the boat will be progressively harder to roll. When I used the procedure on my previous boat, I rolled it over so that the tip of the mast was about 7 feet abpve the ground. The rail was under, but the water did not reach the companion way. I probably should add MAKE SURE YOUR LAZZERETE HATCHES ARE WELL SEALED. |
Jack
Virginia
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
07/30/2005 10:33 AM Pacific Time
Will a lazy jack system take the place of a topping lift?
Thanks,
Jack |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
07/31/2005 5:23 AM Pacific Time
The topping lift is attached at the end of the boom, while the lazy jacks are attached in the middle. If you only have lazy jacks, and lean on the end of the boom, it can go down if the gooseneck can go up (like a teeter-toter).
I have both lazy jacks and a topping lift because I like the boom to be solid. |
Greg Baker
Charlotte, NC
Boat Name: Sea Sharp Minor
Model/Year: Catalina 22 - 1984 - Swing Keel
Hull No. 11823
Hailing Port: Lake Norman Sailing Club |
07/31/2005 8:25 AM Pacific Time
I struggled with the pigtail way too long and always felt uncomfortable using it to take a reef or any other reason under sail. So one day I just took a piece of 1/4 inch low streatch line, tied it to the top of the mast at the same place where the back stay attaches and then looped thru the padeye on the end of the boom and tied a rolling hitch back to itself. Since I trailer the boat, the mast is usually down so that part was easy. It works great and the rolling hitch gives me and easy way to adjust the droop in the boom. I keep wondering what took me so long to get here and why the topping lifts I see for sale are so complicated. |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
07/31/2005 10:19 AM Pacific Time
Hi Greg - Just make sure the rolling hitch is adjusted to slack off on the tension of the topping lift, when the main sail is hoisted. Otherwise the sail shape of the main may be adversely effected.
I prefer the Boom Kicker. By simply adjusting the vang, you can adjust how open or closed the mainsail leach is without having to sheet in to reach the end of the boom. I still use the pigtail when putting the boat to bed or lowering the mainsail to prevent the boom from swinging away from me when I happen to lean on it. |
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
08/02/2005 5:43 AM Pacific Time
Dick, I really enjoyed the boom kicker on my previous boat, Capri 18 but I figured that if I used that on my C22 it would prevent me from raising the pop-top. Do you have a solution for that? Thanks.
"Spirit" #13485 |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
08/03/2005 3:51 AM Pacific Time
Hi Artur- How do you raise the pop top with the vang in place? As I said, I still use the pig tail to stabilize the boom after the mainsail is lowered, which by the way, is the only time the poptop should be raised. My poptop is screwed down permanently. However, if I did want to raise it, I would simply remove the Boom Kicker. The upper end fits into a slotted fitting on the boom and the lower end is held to the mast fitting by a fast pin. The vang is attached with snap shackles.Both take about 10 seconds to remove. |
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
08/03/2005 7:25 PM Pacific Time
Thanks for your input. |
