Chip NJ
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 22, 1987
Hull No. 13831
Hailing Port: NJ |
09/14/2009 12:38 PM Pacific Time
Hello,
I've got an '87 C22, presumably with the newer style winch as it only takes about 25 turns to get the keel down.
My issue is that the tube that the cable goes through isn't aligned properly with the spool of the winch. It's slightly aft, so when I pull up the keel, all of the cable loads on the aft side of the spool on top of itself. At some point, the pile gets unwieldy and "falls off," which drops the keel a bit, which I'm sure isn't good for the boat.
Is this normal, or is there anything I can do to improve the way the cable lays on the spool to make things go more smoothly? |
Peter South Daytona, Florida
Boat Name: (Working On A Name)
Model/Year: C-22, 1974
Hull No. 2679
Hailing Port: South Daytona, Florida |
09/14/2009 1:27 PM Pacific Time
Chip, based on information I've gotten from other discussions, would be to loosen the bolts to the winch and place some shims to level the winch so the cable will spool properly. |
Chip NJ
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 22, 1987
Hull No. 13831
Hailing Port: NJ |
09/14/2009 2:37 PM Pacific Time
Thanks for the reply. I'm not sure I understand though and wonder if maybe I haven't explained it well. Here's a poorly drawn pic that will maybe help:
http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss215/chitchens/keel_winch.png
It's connected to the boat on the top, right? I think shimming it could only lower it, or maybe angle it toward the pipe that the cable goes down, but if I angled it enough to do anything, I don't think I'd still be able to turn the handle with the cover in place because I'd have to shim it quite a bit. |
Peter South Daytona, Florida
Boat Name: (Working On A Name)
Model/Year: C-22, 1974
Hull No. 2679
Hailing Port: South Daytona, Florida |
09/15/2009 7:55 AM Pacific Time
Chip, you're right. If the winch is offset by that much shimming would not work. Is there any way you could take some pictures of the area and post it? Here's a picture of Chip Ford's setup after refurbishing. His is also somewhat offset. Is yours worse? If your winch is an older model, it will have the small diameter shaft that the cable spools on. In Ford's case, he welded a tube on his winch increasing the diameter. This way it doesn't take as many turns to lift the keel and there is less stress on the cable - http://www.chipford.com/graphics/keelproj04.jpg; http://www.chipford.com/graphics/winch09.jpg |
R. C. Luiken Milford, DE
Boat Name: Ricochet
Model/Year: C-22 Swing Keel/1986
Hull No. 13560
Hailing Port: Milford, DE/St. Michaels, MD |
09/15/2009 2:39 PM Pacific Time
Chip, I think you have 2 problems. First is that your "Turning Ball" is worn. Second is that your tube is mis-aligned on the "Volcano" Both problems are going to have to wait until your boat is out of the water to correct.
One thing that puzzles me is that the tube is so rigid as to override the tendency for the winch to wind properly. My tube is sufficiently flexible that I can move it. As a temporary measure, put some string around the tube and pull it into alignment. |
Chip NJ
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 22, 1987
Hull No. 13831
Hailing Port: NJ |
09/24/2009 8:42 AM Pacific Time
Hey, thanks for the replies.
Peter: Mine is way, way worse than Chip Ford's. The tube appears to be verticle, but neither comes up as high as his nor gets as close to the center of the winch's spool. I'll take a pic the next time I'm at the boat.
R.C.: I haven't actually inspected the tube's alignment on the volcano, but I don't think that the tube is culprit. As you mention, the tube isn't all that that rigid--it looks like radiator hose or something and I can easily move it with my hand. The issue is that wherever the cable is coming from is out of alighment with the winch, as if someone moved the winch a couple inches toward the bow. I'll have to read up on the turning ball. |
Peter South Daytona, Florida
Boat Name: (Working On A Name)
Model/Year: C-22, 1974
Hull No. 2679
Hailing Port: South Daytona, Florida |
09/24/2009 10:43 AM Pacific Time
I recently acquired a 1974, Hull #2679. I noticed that the previous owner on replacing the winch, added to the bridge deck extending it into the cabin a few inches to overcome just what you're talking about. I haven't checked to see how the cable lines up with keel eyebolt. I wonder if the thru-hull (volcano) was positioned badly on manufacture. I'll try to get a picture. |
Bilgeboy Carrboro, NC
Boat Name: Kosher Cannoli, Northern Light
Model/Year: C22 Swing 1988, C34 Wing 2003
Hull No. 14447, 1632
Hailing Port: Kerr Lake, NC |
10/17/2009 1:40 PM Pacific Time
Did this ever get resolved? I found this same issue this summer and am planning to try the shimming method. Just to note that this issue has the potential to affect more than a keel jolt from a slipping cable wrap. The jolt to the keel itself is negligible. However, when the cable slips off of the previous wrap it can tear and pinch the cable strands. While this wears out the cable prematurely, the broken strands can catch on the keel cable hose tearing it as well. Worse still they can catch the hose while retracting the keel and tear it from the volcano riser tube! Now your sunk - literally! |
Chip NJ
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 22, 1987
Hull No. 13831
Hailing Port: NJ |
11/03/2009 2:25 PM Pacific Time
Hi, sorry for the delay. Spending all my available time sailing and not looking at the forums.
Technically, this is not resolved for me. I am able to get it to spool a little better if I reach around through the side and REALLY pull the cable toward the bow while cranking up, but it's awkward and it doesn't doesn't work 100% of the time. I'm purchasing the swing keel maintenance kit from Catalina Direct, and I hope that when I get it all apart something will jump out at me. To be honest, I don't really get the whole turning ball thing, so I think disassembling it will be helpful in my understanding of the problem (assuming I can get it back together! I have serious concerns about being able to disconnect the existing cable from the keel with the boat on the trailer--although the keel is lowered and resting on the roller, I don't think it goes down far enough for me to get at the attachment point.)
I welcome any insights, and I'll try to check in more often now that the season is over for the winter here.
Thanks,
chip |
R. C. Luiken Milford, DE
Boat Name: Ricochet
Model/Year: C-22 Swing Keel/1986
Hull No. 13560
Hailing Port: Milford, DE/St. Michaels, MD |
11/04/2009 4:48 AM Pacific Time
Chip,if you can't get to it lower the tongue of your trailer to the ground. Place some sort of support mechanism under the stern, I use cinder blocks and 6X6's crank the tongue up until you have sufficient clearance to lower the keel some. Place a support under the aft end of the retracted keel and lower the keel until it rests on it. Unspool the winch and unpin the cable from the keel. I can get my whole boat off the trailer and on to supports fore and aft in about 1:30 by myself. What you need to do shouldn't take but about 15 min. |
Chip Ford Marblehead, MA
Boat Name: Chip Ahoy
Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel
Hull No. CTY032820374
Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass. |
11/04/2009 7:53 AM Pacific Time
Chip -- go to:
http://chipford.com/projects.htm
Scroll down to and click on:
"Keel Cable, Hose, Turning Ball Replacement"
I hope you find something there that helps.
Chip Ford --
Marblehead, Massachusetts
http://chipford.com/business_card.htm
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" #3282
CTY032820374
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com
http://chipford.com/list/members.htm#Chip_Ford
Technical Editor, C22NSA - MainBrace magazine
http://www.catalina22.org |
Chip NJ
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 22, 1987
Hull No. 13831
Hailing Port: NJ |
11/04/2009 7:19 PM Pacific Time
Cool, thanks. |