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Author Removing Keel Lock Down Bolt
Kalman Peleg
Haifa, Isreal

Boat Name: BAR GAL

Model/Year: 1994

Hull No. 13937

Hailing Port: Haifa
04/07/2004 2:55 PM Pacific Time

It seems that my keel lock down bolt has been turned in too much by the previous owner. This pried out the wall of the keel trunk and a crack formed about parallel to the metal strip to which the nut is connected. Water is coming in through this crack when the boat heels.
Some part of the metal strap near the nut is exposed.
When the keel is down it is very difficult to turn the bolt. It can be turned about 3/4 of a turn in and out.
But as soon as the keel is even slightly hoisted the bolt turns freely.
Is it possible that since the bolt is screwed in all the way it prevents the keel from going down all the way?

Does anybody know how the bolt is connected to the keel locking starp that rubs agains the keel?
Can I outscrew the bolt all the way and remove it completely without loosing the keel locking strap?

If anybody had a similar problem I would also appreciate some advise how to fix the crack and reinforce the trunk wall.

Thanks for your help.
Kalman
Dick King
Melbourne, FL

Boat Name: Twilight Zone

Model/Year: Sport/2005

Hull No. 15546

Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL
04/07/2004 3:35 PM Pacific Time

Kalman - I don't know if this will help or not, but here goes.

The keel "llocking" mechanism consits only of two parts- a piece of stainless strap that is buried in the glass of the port side of the keel trunk. This strap has a nut welded to it. Into the nut is inserted a piece of threaded stainless rod, that is bent at 90 degrees or has a handle through the inside end to help turn it. The keel is "locked" down by screwing the end of the threaded rod against the side of the keel. How that is going to prevent the keel from moving, if it wants to, is beyond my comprehension.

I am a non locker. If the rod can be screwed out of its hole, I suggest you do so while the boat is floating in calm water. Coat the threads with heavy bearing grease and screw it back into the hole. Screw it in about 3/8 to 1/2 inch and forget it. Your keel should go up or down with no interference from the rod.

As to the crack in the keel trunk, I suspect that was done when the keel hit something, while the "lockdown" bolt was tiight against it's side. The proper way to repair it, is to pull the boat from the water, grind out the strap, try to repair the crack in the side of the keel trunk and glass the strap back. If it were me, I would stop after the keel trunk is repaired. The 'lockdown" bolt, in my humble opinion is a worthless piece of junk that only causes problems like yours.-
Kalman Peleg
Haifa, Isreal

Boat Name: BAR GAL

Model/Year: 1994

Hull No. 13937

Hailing Port: Haifa
04/08/2004 12:22 PM Pacific Time

Dick - You sure did help. Knowing how the thing is constructed inside was indeed very helpful. I managed to unscrew the bolt using WD40 and slowly turning it in and out a fraction of a turn at a time. The threads of the nut and the bolt were rusted and somewhat damaged but the bolt was only slightly bent. I tapped the tread of the nut and went over the tread of the bolt. Now the bolt can be screwed in and out freely so this part of the problem is fixed.

Your suggestion not to lock down the keel is interesting. From your description it seems that when the keel is down it just hangs there like a pendulum. The cable constrains it from swinging aft but without the bolt there is nothing to prevent it from swinging forward , when a sizable wave hits the boat from the rear. Furthermore, without the bolt, what is to prevent the keel from sliding from side to side along the shaft?
Quite often I am sailing in heavy seas so this is a real concern to me.

By the way, what in your opinion is the safe maximum heeling angle for a C22 with a swing keel? Is it about the same as for a C22 with a fixed keel?

The crack in keel trunk is not large so I am going to try and fix it without hauling the boat. Will let you know how I fare.

Thanks,

Kalman
Dick King
Melbourne, FL

Boat Name: Twilight Zone

Model/Year: Sport/2005

Hull No. 15546

Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL
04/08/2004 4:49 PM Pacific Time

Kalman - I think you have the wrong mental picture of the keel. When the keel is fully down, the head of the keel rotates up against the aft side of the trunk (just under the forward dinette arm rest and hangs down at about a 45 degree angle. I believe your boat is equipped with keel hangers that restrict the sideways movment of the keel on the pivot pin. The weight of the keel holds it in this position, unless a) the keel hits something to move it aft or b) the boat rolls over to the point where the lower end of the keel is higher than the pivot point of the keel. In this attitude, the keel might swing "down" against the keel slot. If your boat is in this orientation, you have other problems to deal with, like mast and sails under water, water rushing into the cabin and below decks through unsealed hatches, etc. If you send me your email address, I will try to send you some more information about the keel assemble with some drawings. My address in phonetics is Romeo Tango Kilo Juliet Romeo @ bellsouth.net
Jim Witt
Winters, CA

Boat Name: Sea Ya

Model/Year: Cat 22 ' 1974

Hull No.

Hailing Port: Lake Berryessa
05/20/2004 11:54 AM Pacific Time

In something I read (maybe from Catalina) and my impression is that the lock down bolt is supposed to operate like a clutch. Pressure is applied to the keel and if the keel bottoms out, the bolt pressure on the keel will allow the keel to swing up, so as to not damage the hull or keel. My problem is that I can visually see deep scrapes on the keel where the bolt has "clutched" along the keel as it swings up and I have the same strap/leak problem to fix. My thought is that the bolt is tightened down so as to lock the keel and any sideways keel movement busts loose the strap from the glass Does anyone know if this is correct? Was this system used on my (1974) Catalina 22?
Dave
West Bend, WI

Boat Name:

Model/Year: 1988 C22

Hull No. #14447

Hailing Port: Oshkosh, WI
05/20/2004 4:48 PM Pacific Time

I agree with Dick. Hitting bottom with the lock-down bolt tight against the keel is just asking for something to break. As for the keel swinging like a pendulum, Dick covered that as well. No way that thing is going to move when it's fully lowered, even in pretty good swells. For the side-to-side play of the keel on the pin, you do have a point in that the bolt might help. But that's not what the bolt is for and it might be cocking the keel crooked if you know what I mean. That would cause the boat to behave differently on different tacks. If you want to fix the side-to-side slop in the keel, then add the spacer kit and the wide hangars from CD. I have those on my boat and the keel gets nice and tight when down due to the tight fit of the spacer pads up in the trunk. It actually takes a minute or two to work it's way down all the way. I can tell from the cable hum. When I first let the keel down the cable starts humming, I give the crank an extra half turn to stop the hum. After about a minute, the cable will start to hum again. This must be from the keel settling the rest of the way down. Another half crank on the handle and no more hum. I believe the spacer kit provides enough friction to do the job similar to what the keel bolt was intended to do and without damaging anything if I ground it. Probably not as much friction as a fully tightened bolt, but better than no friction at all. Just my two-cents.

Dave
Dave
West Bend, WI

Boat Name:

Model/Year: 1988 C22

Hull No. #14447

Hailing Port: Oshkosh, WI
05/20/2004 4:55 PM Pacific Time

Here's a link with a diagram to show how the keel bottoms out against the dinette arm rest as Dick mentioned. Scroll down the page to section 4.2.7.

http://www.catalina22.org/manuals/mnl87/handbook.htm


Dave
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct

Boat Name: Spirit

Model/Year: C22 1986

Hull No. 13485

Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct
05/21/2004 7:14 AM Pacific Time

Dick,
thanks for all the suggestions. It looks like I'll be another non-locker from now on. It make sense. Thanks.

Spirit
#13485
Kalman Peleg
Haifa, Isreal

Boat Name: BAR GAL

Model/Year: 1994

Hull No. 13937

Hailing Port: Haifa
05/21/2004 1:13 PM Pacific Time

It seems that the keel lock down bolt is causing problems for many people, me too.

MY PROBLEM: The PO used to raise and lower the keel while the keel lock down bolt was screwed in all the way. Luckily this only caused the bolt to be bent only slightly so I was able to remove it and repair the threads of the bolt and the nut. However the stress on the bolt and/or sideways movement of the keel resulted in some damage to the trunk wall, so small amounts of water leakage occured when the boat was heeling to port.
THE FIX: 3 layers of GLASS stopped the leaks through the wall but there was still a leak through the bolt tread. The manufacturer recommends using heavy marine grease to stop the leak. This is a messy and ineffective solution. Instead, I applied some regular grease to the bolt thread and wound around it some Teflon tape, (the one plumbers use on pipe threads). The grease underneath the Teflon tape prevents rusting, there is no mess and most important NO LEAKS.
THE QUESTION: I am afraid to tighten the keel lock down bolt lest the pressure on the trunk wall causes the leaks to reappear. Dick King and some others recommend not to tighten the bolt anyway. However I sometimes sail in heavy seas and I am concerned about sidewise movement. If the bushings and/or the pin are worn the top end of the keel may hit the side wall of the trunk and cause damage.
To solve this problem it seems that CATALINA sometimes started to fit the C22 swing keel with a centering spacer kit. I don't know if my boat has it or not. Does anybody know what year they started to install it? My boat is a 1987 model.
Kalman
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY

Boat Name: Marrakesh

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13645

Hailing Port: Rochester, NY
05/21/2004 2:57 PM Pacific Time

I have a 1986 that I purchased in 1987, It has the wide hangers. There is virtually no space between the hanger and the keel (you can't see the pin). I installed the spacer pads at the front of the keel, but it was too tight until one of the spacers fell off.
Dave
West Bend, WI

Boat Name:

Model/Year: 1988 C22

Hull No. #14447

Hailing Port: Oshkosh, WI
05/21/2004 3:56 PM Pacific Time

Kalman,

Just take a look next time you have the boat out of the water on the trailer. If the pads are there, you'll see them (one on each side) near the forward end of the keel (the part of the keel that swings up into the trunk).


Dave
Dave
West Bend, WI

Boat Name:

Model/Year: 1988 C22

Hull No. #14447

Hailing Port: Oshkosh, WI
05/21/2004 4:06 PM Pacific Time

Michael,

You probably could have just sanded them down a little to loosen up the fit. Were your pads epoxied directly to the iron of the keel, or just on top of the paint? I ground an area down to the metal just a bit smaller than the pad so as not to leave any metal exposed. Didn't much matter though. I still see a little rust starting to form around one of the pads. They still seem solidly attached though. I suppose eventually the corrosion will pop them off.

Dave
Bill Cramer
Riverside, CA

Boat Name: Flextime II

Model/Year: C22 1971

Hull No. 547

Hailing Port: Riverside
06/18/2005 9:41 PM Pacific Time

I just removed the strap and nut from my 1971 swing keel. It appeared to be original and shows that the PO(s) had attempted to do a patch job arround it. The entire portion below the nut had rusted away like it was not even stainless, but I am sure 34 years has taken it toll.

I now have a very nice 1/2 inch hole and a decision to make. Do I replace the strap or just patch the hole. My question is: Has any every had a time that they felt the lock down bolt actual saved them?

I only do lake and bay sailing with the boat and have no desire to test it in adverse conditions. In fact, I orginally had plans of doing Cataina Island, but after much thought a advice feel the C22 is not a good choice for "blue water." When I see Dick King say he is not using his, I really question the need for a hole in my boat! Thanks.
Dick King
Melbourne, FL

Boat Name: Twilight Zone

Model/Year: Sport/2005

Hull No. 15546

Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL
06/19/2005 6:37 AM Pacific Time

Hi Bill - Please don't do something or not on my account alone. I personally don't believe the lockdown bolt will perform as advertised and will do damage to the boat if locked during a grounding.

However. there are those who believe otherwise. I would be interested to hear the answer to your question about anyone who has actually benefited from the use of the bolt.

My advice is to fill the hole and go sailing.
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY

Boat Name: Marrakesh

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13645

Hailing Port: Rochester, NY
06/19/2005 6:56 AM Pacific Time

I am also a "non-locker". I've been out in Lake Ontario in 25 knot winds and 6 foot seas. Several times I've been knocked down about 80 degrees (standing on the side of the cockpit seat until the boat rights itself).

If you were to lock down and turtle the boat, I would guess that the keel would start to slip toward the hull before it was straight-up, and the bang would not be as horrible as you might think. Once turtled, if the boat did not right itself, it would eventually sink because the trapped air would come through the volcano (and sink drain in a new-style). I'm not sure you'd be able to climb up the hull and pull on the swing keel to right the boat (and would you want to be that close to it if the lockdown bolt might fail?).

Here is a second vote for patching the hole and going sailing.
Mike Bracket
Clinton Twp, MI

Boat Name: Gunsmoke

Model/Year: 1979

Hull No. 9150

Hailing Port: Lake St Clair MI
06/19/2005 8:51 AM Pacific Time

I repaired mine several years ago but replaced the lock down bolt with a short bolt just to plug the hole.
I believe the probability of getting yourself into a situation where the lock down bolt is needed to keep the keel in the down position is very small. It is possible, but as Mike S. mentioned, even folks who sail their boats hard have not gotten into that position.
The probability that you will run aground (or try to raise the keel) with the bolt locked is MUCH higher. Almost a certainty. And as Dick King said, there is a real chance for damage.
Play the odds. Patch the hole and go sailing.

Mike Bracket
david martin
hutchinson island fl

Boat Name: barefoot gourmet

Model/Year: cat 22 1977

Hull No. 7942 (?)

Hailing Port: Hutchinsom Island Fl
06/20/2005 8:18 AM Pacific Time

I am really going to confuse the issue and say that I never lock down . More than half the time I dont lower the keel at all or below half way , I am from an old dinghy racing family and we always raise the keel the more and more we are off wind . I know this is not legal for c22 racing and I would not advise novices to do it nor would I advise it in big wind or big water . Just thought I would stir things up a bit on monday morning .
David
Bill Cramer
Riverside, CA

Boat Name: Flextime II

Model/Year: C22 1971

Hull No. 547

Hailing Port: Riverside
07/16/2005 2:30 AM Pacific Time

I bought some Aquamend putty from Home Depot and patched the hole. Then laid two sheet of fiberglass over that and I am now keelboltless and no more leak in the boat. Hope to spend a few days on San Deigo bay for the end of summer. In the meantime, I will enjoy the great afternoon sailing out at my local lake, Lake Perris. Thanks for all the input,
Bill
John Haggis
Victoria BC

Boat Name: Windfall

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1973

Hull No. 2934

Hailing Port: Victoria BC
07/17/2005 12:36 PM Pacific Time

I have had my boat for 5 years, it is a 1973, I have never had a problem with my Keel bolt leaking until this year. other than plugging the hole and doing away with the keel bolt is there another way to stop the leak?
Thanks
John
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY

Boat Name: Marrakesh

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13645

Hailing Port: Rochester, NY
07/17/2005 1:58 PM Pacific Time

If you haven't sustained any damage to the keel lockdown bolt, it is probably just seeping through the threads. I've heard of people greasing the threads to fill the gap.
John Haggis
Victoria BC

Boat Name: Windfall

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1973

Hull No. 2934

Hailing Port: Victoria BC
07/18/2005 8:05 AM Pacific Time

Thanks for the advice Michael. I got to watch the Keel bolt while underway yesterday and notice a drip coming from a small hole above the Keel Bolt. I looks like a repair job from years ago that has broken down. It is above the waterline so I think I can plug it with some expoy.
I hear it is hot in the east. Summer just arrived to the West coast yesterday. It is about time.
Happy Sailing,


Raymond
Canberra

Boat Name: Heat Wave

Model/Year: Boomaroo 22

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
07/18/2005 3:00 PM Pacific Time

If the boat were to turtle (180 degrees) I cannot imagine that the friction of the lock down bolt would stop 250 kg of keel from droping down (up into the case). Am I missing something?

Ray
Wayne
San Diego

Boat Name: Arrythmia

Model/Year: 1972

Hull No. 1523

Hailing Port: Fiddlers Cove
07/05/2006 11:48 AM Pacific Time

Hi All. I just cracked the glass around my lockdown bolt and strap. The strap has rusted through and needs replacing. My question after reading the this subject is' does anyone know a fibreglass worker in the san diego area who can replace the strap or even to grind out the the old strap and patch the hole instead. Also would I be just wasting my dollars replacing the strap to go boltless instead?

Thanks

Wayne
 
 
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