Electrical

Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Electrical / Electrics is Spensive!
 
 
Author Electrics is Spensive!
Don
Yorktown, VA

Boat Name: Skweedle

Model/Year: '75 Catalina 22 Swing Keel

Hull No. 4821

Hailing Port: Yorktown
12/29/2004 11:53 AM Pacific Time

Howdy,
I'm refitting #4861 pretty much from scratch, and scoping the cost of the electrical doo-dads is getting me down. I'm pretty much going to have to re-wire the whole boat, new battery, charger, wiring, light fixtures, the enchilada con maximus. I started looking at alternatives. I can put in a couple LED cabin lights running off flashlight batteries. They make LED nav lights, again running off battery. I could probably power my depth sounder off a couple lantern batteries. What am I missing here guys? Why spend $300-500 refurbing a conventional electric system? So one day I can install a tiller pilot? Because it's sexy? I eagerly await your thoughts.
Kevin Murphy
Carmichael, CA

Boat Name: Booyah!

Model/Year: 1973 Catalina 22

Hull No. #2526

Hailing Port: Carmichael, CA
12/30/2004 9:21 PM Pacific Time

I have to agree with you Don! I was where you are now about a month ago. I bought my boat back in March without a radio, without a battery - really just bare wires hanging here and there and from a panel with broken switches. She sails fine without the stuff but I decided to bite the bullet strictly for safety and convenience's sake - being able to flip a switch to make anything "go" on board from one spot, like a radio and running lights for night.

I've been able to save myself more money than I orginally thought by finding electrical items on the net for less than I expected to pay for them. Doing a search on "ICOM 302" saved me about $50 for my new radio for example. You usually don't have to pay sales tax over the net which saves you money too!

It's true what they say - you get what you pay for. In the end the safety and security is my biggest concern. I'll save the Duracells and Energizers as a last resort.
Don
Yorktown, VA

Boat Name: Skweedle

Model/Year: '75 Catalina 22 Swing Keel

Hull No. 4821

Hailing Port: Yorktown
03/31/2005 10:19 AM Pacific Time

WELL I DID IT.

I think it was the idea of a bilge pump that won me over. I bought a 105 amp hour group 31 battery at Bass Pro Shop and a ProMite 5 charger, that should do me for overnighters. Now I'm going to try and get my original nav lights working before I move on to upgrading them. Geez what a hole in the water...
Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA

Boat Name: Chip Ahoy

Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel

Hull No. CTY032820374

Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass.
04/01/2005 1:57 AM Pacific Time


I probably hold the Catalina 22 record for filling a hole in the water, guys.

The first thing I did on "Chip Ahoy" when I uncovered it for the first time in Spring '03 was install a bilge pump. I've never been aboard a boat that didn't have a bilge pump and wasn't about to start then! While many other C22 owners advised that I didn't need one, I *wanted* one, and the peace of mind it provides especially when it's unattended out on its mooring.
(See: http://www.chipford.com/bilge_pump.htm)

It didn't come with a battery when I bought it, so I installed one; then last year installed a second battery and switch before my month's cruise up the coast of Maine in August.
(See: http://www.chipford.com/second_battery.htm)

Then began the rewiring project.
(See: http://www.chipford.com/wiring.htm)

For that month's cruise, I also installed a small solar panel to keep the batteries topped off.
(See: http://www.chipford.com/solar_panel.htm)

A tiller pilot to me is quite a bit more than just "sexy" if you plan to do any serious singlehanded sailing, so before my cruise up the coast of Maine I installed one.
(See: http://www.chipford.com/tiller_pilot.htm)

I've done an incredible amount of restoration and upgrading work and the projects continue. I'm not a wealthy man by any stretch, but save up all winter then spend for the spring on my next project(s), much of it after researching prices on the Internet. Maybe that's an advantage to being "cabin-bound" in New England for six months of the year.

This will be my third year owning "Chip Ahoy." Besides the hundreds upon hundreds of labor hours I've invested into it, "The Running Cost of My Hole in the Water" has steadily climbed up to now $18,044.70. (I could have bought a new one for less, but I've had fun making it "my boat" the way I want it!)
(See: http://www.chipford.com/cost.htm)

I had the boat surveyed last year so I could insure it before my singlehanded Maine cruise. The survey reported its "Present Value" to be $9,800, its "Replacement Value" $27,000.
(See: http://www.chipford.com/survey.pdf)

If I ever sell "Chip Ahoy," I recognize that I'll be lucky to get $6,000, maybe $7,000 with what I've sunk into it and all the receipts I've filed away. But its become the boat I wanted, and it does what I want it to do when I want to do it. I won't be selling it any time soon, if ever.

Chip Ford
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" - #3282
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com

Pete Staehling
Baltimore, Md

Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
04/01/2005 3:45 AM Pacific Time

Different strokes I guess, but I never thought a bilge pump was worthwhile on a C22. If serious water comes in when the boat is unattended the battery will die. I think you are deluding yourself if you think a pump will be likely to do any real good.

I have never had water in my boat beyond what a sponge would handle and in the event of a through hull failing I don't see how a pump would help unless it was hooked up to shorepower and had the capacity to stay ahead of the incoming water.

An alarm that got the attention of someone who cared would be more useful, but I personally wouldn't bother with that either.

All that said... if for some reason it gives you peace of mind I guess that is worth the cost.
Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA

Boat Name: Chip Ahoy

Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel

Hull No. CTY032820374

Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass.
04/02/2005 6:17 AM Pacific Time


Geez, then I wonder why most boats have them? I figure that pumping out 1100 gallons-per-hour will keep ahead of all but the most catastrophic of leaks. That's a pretty good chunk of "peace of mind" I'd say.

What I wouldn't give to watch someone trying to bail that out with a sponge!

Chip Ford
Marblehead, Mass
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" - #3282
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com

Michael Smalter
Webster, NY

Boat Name: Marrakesh

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13645

Hailing Port: Rochester, NY
04/02/2005 9:03 AM Pacific Time

A bilge pump may not provide much protection at the dock, but what about when you are sailing and a fitting breaks (speedo sending unit, sink drain on new styles, cockpit drain on old-style, or volcano hose)? At a depth of 1.5 feet, a 3/4" hole will allow 13.5 gallons per minute into the boat. Thats 810 gallons per hour! If you don't have an automatic bilge pump, you will not notice the leak until the florrboards are awash. An automatic bilge pump will turn on before that and alert you to the problem earlier. It will also be pumping the water out while you are searching for the source of the leak and the plugs/clamps/tools to stop the leak. If it was 10 minutes before you noticed the leak, and another 5 to fix it, you would have 200+ gallons of water in the boat (1600 pounds). That's alot to pump out by hand, and maybe enough to sink the boat.

If a 500GPH bilge pump turns on at the 5 minute mark and works while you fix the leak, you will have less than 100 gallons in the boat. And if you can't stop the leak completely, the pump can keep the boat afloat until you make it back to shore and can pull the boat.
Don
Yorktown, VA

Boat Name: Skweedle

Model/Year: '75 Catalina 22 Swing Keel

Hull No. 4821

Hailing Port: Yorktown
04/06/2005 9:04 AM Pacific Time

Glad to see this thread finally got some activity. Here's some thoughts for new skippers looking at their wiring:
I bought a pretty huge battery for $80 at bass pro shop
$27 new panel (6 switch, boater's world)
Promariner promite 5 $50 at boater's world
Another $20 in wire and connectors.
The white wire is a common return, sort of like the negative wire for the whole boat.
The red wire is jumpered together to make the bow and stern lights work (along with the white)
The black wire is for the mast-light (steaming)
Finally, the blue wire lights up all your cabin lights.
All three nav lights actually work, even though they haven't been sparked in years! Cabin lights are all trash, gotta install new fixtures, so I'm going LED to cut amp hours. I agree with the pro-bilge pump mafia. If my hose comes off, I want a few hundred gallons per hour going back out of the boat while I figure something out.

Plust, I talked with a few guys in the yacht club and validated another reason to step up to a real electrical system. Apparently a well-installed fixed vhf with antenna at the top of the mast transmits a hoop better than a handheld. So, that will be my next "big" purchase.

Chip, I got Skweedle for free, bought a trailer for 400, put 200 into tuning up the evinrude 6, bought about 600 in electrics and doo-dads, and that's it. I can't imagine spending what you have in Chip Ahoy, but I sure love your website, it's better than the catalina direct catalog.

I launched Skweedle (docked at beautiful Fort Monroe, VA) a few weeks ago. My daughter (11) and I sailed her across the mouth of the chesapeake and back, anchored, had lunch at my new dinette table, what a blast. Spring has Sprung in Hampton Roads.
I LOVE THIS STUFF!
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct

Boat Name: Spirit

Model/Year: C22 1986

Hull No. 13485

Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct
04/06/2005 10:57 AM Pacific Time

I'm glad you've mentioned VHF antenna. I have one mounted on the top of the mast. Coax cable goes through the cabin top via a connector that was demaged on my C22 last summer. I'm trying to replace it, both deck and cable end halves but CD doesn't offer those parts anymore. Any idea where to look for those? I found some male plugs on the web but I really need the whole set. Thanks.

"Spirit" #13485
Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA

Boat Name: Chip Ahoy

Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel

Hull No. CTY032820374

Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass.
04/07/2005 2:40 AM Pacific Time


Don wrote: "Chip ... I can't imagine spending what you have in Chip Ahoy, but I sure love your website, it's better than the catalina direct catalog."

Don, I think it *is* the Catalina Direct catalog -- only mine has instructions!

And I just put another $1,000-plus into Lowell's pocket for this season's "investment":
http://www.chipford.com/to-do_wish_list_05.htm

Lowell, don't I deserve some kind of award?!?

BTW, you can find C22 electrical wiring schematics on the Chip Ahoy website at:
http://www.chipford.com/electrical.htm

Chip Ford
Marblehead, Mass
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" - #3282
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com

Pete Staehling
Baltimore, Md

Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
04/07/2005 3:55 AM Pacific Time

> Geez, then I wonder why most boats have them?

First, my guess is that most C22's don't have them. As the number of thru-hulls, driveshafts etc. increases the need increases. Most boats have more need for one than the typical C22 with only one thru-hull for the cockpit drain.

Mine is a fin keel, so I don't know much about the swing keel. Perhaps the swing keel is at a somewhat higher risk? Or are all openings high enough to not be a factor?

> I figure that pumping out 1100 gallons-per-hour will
> keep ahead of all but the most catastrophic of leaks.
> That's a pretty good chunk of "peace of mind" I'd say.

How long will it keep up when unattended on a mooring? You did say that you are on a mooring right? My assumption was that the battery would likely be dead in a relatively short amount of time. Most boats are unattended for fairly lengthy periods of time between use. Is the battery up to running the pump for long periods of time without a charge or do you have solar panels with capacity enough to keep up (assuming the sun shines).

FWIW: My C22 does have a "built in" hand operated pump and a wooden bung to be used in case the one thru-hull does fail. The pump was there when I bought the boat and hasn't pumped a drop of water in the years I have owned the boat.

Pete



Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA

Boat Name: Chip Ahoy

Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel

Hull No. CTY032820374

Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass.
04/08/2005 1:51 AM Pacific Time


I have two batteries with a 4-position switch, a small solar panel that's good only for keeping the batteries topped off on the mooring, and an outboard alternator which charges when the motor is running, so that's a little more "peace of mind." To be fair, there's no such thing as an "unsinkable" boat: the Titanic proved that in 1912.

Sure, if Chip Ahoy is out on its mooring and springs a major leak (e.g., the new keel cable hose with its two new hose clamps somehow pops off the volcano), and there's nobody running the busy launch service, whose floating dock is a couple hundred yards from my mooring, or they're just too oblivious to let me know, at my house a couple of hundred yards up the road from the town dock -- [See: http://www.chipford.com/aerial_home2.htm] -- then of course eventually the two batteries will wear down and the boat will sink -- assuming there's still nobody around to see it (will it still make a sound?!?) as it slowly settles deeper into the harbor.

But "so why bother trying to stay afloat" isn't a reasonable alternative.

Without an automatic bilge pump, with only a sponge or even a manual pump, are your odds of staying afloat better?

Should Chip Ahoy hit a metaphorical iceberg, or be hit by one (my extended solo cruises along the foggy coast of rocky Maine present various potentials), I'll at least be able to offload 1100 gallons of ocean per hour (18 gallons of water, some 150 pounds, every minute until the two batteries go dead) while I attempt to plug the leak, or in the worst case, await rescue. I'll have bought time, and that's considerable "peace of mind," for me well worth the minimal cost of the investment.

Without an automatic bilge pump, with only a sponge or even a manual pump, are your odds of staying afloat, or awaiting rescue, better?

Chip Ahoy didn't come with a manual bilge pump, though I wish it had (as a back-up). Years ago one saved us on our 48' wooden ketch one night when we were taking on serious water and the automatic pump ceased working. It turned out that the paper labels on the canned goods we'd stowed in the bilges for our extended cruise had become unglued when they became saturated, and clogged the pump strainer. Let that be a lesson!

I'm a world-class subscriber to the philosophy that "it's better to have and not need, than need and not have." Four or five miles alone offshore in an emergency is not the time to be thinking, "If only I'd ... !

Chip Ford
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" #3282
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com

Pete Staehling
Baltimore, Md

Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
04/08/2005 4:10 AM Pacific Time

Chip,

There is always something more that can be done and you have to draw the line somewhere. This choice is based what the risks are vs what the costs are. It is also based on your personal level of comfort with those risks. As a result the answers will be different for everyone.

My feeling is that the C22 is meant to be a simple little boat and should be kept as such. That doesn't mean that others have to subscribe to my view.

For what it is worth I think that around here (Middle and Upper Chesapeake) a pump on a C22 is the exception rather than the rule.

I still maintain that, while there is nothing wrong with a pump on a C22, it is highly unlikely that it will actually save your boat.

BTW: I stand by my statement that something that gets the attention of someone who cares (bell? horn?) is more likely to save your boat if it springs a leak while on the mooring than a pump, especially since you live close and apparently there is someone there to hear it much of the time. Of course nothing precludes having the alarm AND the pump. I am comfortable enough without either though.

I guess that I have beat this dead horse too much already, so I will try not to comment further.

Pete
Lance Jones
Atlanta, GA

Boat Name: Kitty's Cat

Model/Year: 1988

Hull No. 622

Hailing Port: Lake Lanier, Aqualand Marina
07/20/2005 1:14 PM Pacific Time

Funny! How will a bell or horn save your boat at mooring if no one will automatically ring/blow it to "attract" attention?? It is safe to say that we all have our own preferances.
 
 
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