Greg Rohde Placerville, California
Boat Name: I sold it
Model/Year: 75'
Hull No. 4640
Hailing Port: New home in Medford, Oregon |
01/21/2005 7:02 PM Pacific Time
My cockpit deck has 2 cracks in the gelcoat & water has gotten to about 1/3 of the plywood, previous to my purchase. Has anyone tried cutting away the plywood, leaving the fiberglass (if it de-laminates easily) and glassed in a new piece of wood ? Or another solution ? I find it interesting the cockpit isn't supported to the hull underneath either.#@!*&
Fortunately my decks & hull have no other issues.
Regards, Greg |
Larry Greenville, SC
Boat Name: Kemo Sabe
Model/Year: C-22 , 1973
Hull No. 2229
Hailing Port: www.keoweesailingclub.com |
01/24/2005 6:56 AM Pacific Time
Greg,
Have you considered glassing in some stringers/stiffknees under the cockpit ("easy" access) ? I think I might do something like that, even if the stringers you put under the floor were not totally glassed. Also, you may find some channel iron and 'stiff knee' them in against the underside of the cockpit.
When I did my soft, port side of the deck, the liner was easily cut out and the wood was so bad unti lit just fell out. I cut a piece of plywood and 5200'ed it back to the deck, along with the liner and with plenty of 'stiffknees' to brace the works, it is just fine and you can't tell it ws done from the top and barely inside.
Just thinking,
Good luck!
Larry |
Al Gearing Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22 '76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
01/25/2005 10:43 AM Pacific Time
Sounds like good advice. If you have to cut the whole bottom of the cockpit deck out, it may be better, just leaving the upper/outside in tack. Then I would cut a piece of plywood to fit, coat it good with filled WEST epoxy and brace it into position. When that is set up, cut glass to fit over that and go up the sides. Cut another piece of plywood the same size as the first and cover it with plastic bigger than the glass, and grease it for a release agent. Then saturate the glass with unfilled epoxy and with a couple other hands puthe plywood holder and glass in place, holding the bottom with braces, then work the glass up the sides. You may have to have tape to hold the glass in place with the plastic until it kicks off. orking overhead is tricky, maybe even some plywood to hold the sidespressed in place with pre-cut braces.
Good luck, Al Ge |
Greg Rohde Placerville, California
Boat Name: I sold it
Model/Year: 75'
Hull No. 4640
Hailing Port: New home in Medford, Oregon |
01/25/2005 9:47 PM Pacific Time
Thanks for the advise. I'll be out of town for a week +, then plan to see how extensive an area I have to deal with. I'm leaning toward replacing the whole piece or close to it.
I'll post another note then..Thanks again!
Regards, Greg |
Heidi Heidel Fredericksburg, VA
Boat Name: Interim
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 2212
Hailing Port: Colonial Beach, VA |
04/25/2005 4:23 PM Pacific Time
Greg -
What was the outcome of this? I'm having the same problem with my cockpit deck. |
Greg Rohde Placerville, California
Boat Name: I sold it
Model/Year: 75'
Hull No. 4640
Hailing Port: New home in Medford, Oregon |
05/02/2005 12:59 PM Pacific Time
No upadate yet. I've cut a board to size to cover cockpit deck for now, and limit getting more water into the damaged area. It's better now that it's dried out, but will need surgery after some sailing days but before any heavy weather stuff.
Greg |
Tim & Susan White Roanoke, VA
Boat Name: ScrapingBottom
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1975
Hull No. 5038
Hailing Port: Smith Mountain Lake, VA |
02/19/2006 7:53 AM Pacific Time
Greg,
I just purchased a 1975 Catalina 22 and the cockpit has several large cracks in the floor. The boat was on a traler for several years and it seems to have been taking on water through the cockpit floor. Upon closer inspection I have noticed that the floors in bilge area have soaked up water and are delaminated. Does anyone know the best way to solve this problem?
Thanks
Tim |
Greg Guenther Belleville, IL
Boat Name: Magnificat
Model/Year: 1970
Hull No. 473
Hailing Port: Belleville, IL |
02/20/2006 7:20 AM Pacific Time
Greg - having worked with fiberglass in an enclosed area before, make sure you have plenty of ventilation. Open the cockpit lockers and take a small fan below with you. The fumes are no fun at all! I found this out the hard way.
Greg G. |
Chas St.Denis Milpitas, CA
Boat Name: Saintly
Model/Year: C 22 1974
Hull No. 3259
Hailing Port: Back yard |
02/20/2006 5:54 PM Pacific Time
Re: Cockpit sole/floor failures
Glad I noticed this article! I've found small puddles of water in the space below the cockpit in my '74 Catalina 22, and could not figure out where the water has come from after heavy rains (boat is on the trailer in my back yard). Since reading this, I checked the cockpit floor more carefully and found some small cracks that were not previously noticed. The repairs will be given high priority this spring. Thanks again!
Charlie
# 3259 |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
02/20/2006 6:15 PM Pacific Time
This link was offered on another list when I was asking about doing some repairs. The material they sell and the instructions (on line) they give may be of a lot of use to anyone dealing with leakage thru the external shell (decks, cockpit, cabin roof, etc.)
http://www.rotdoc.com/glass/GLrotrepair.html |
Aaron M Benham 33a Loomis Hights
Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project
Model/Year: 1978 C22
Hull No. 8070
Hailing Port: |
02/20/2006 8:56 PM Pacific Time
I agree with Gregs statment about ventilation but you should also be sure to wear a chemical filter mask that is approved for those types of chemicals anytime you are working with either resin or while doing the all important grinding.
I have the same problem as Tim with the water under the floor. Depending on how long the problem has been going on, the plywood hull stringers under the floor could be rotted as they are on my boat. I have been amazed at just how much water that area can hold and how long it takes to get it dry. but the wood should be completly dry before making any other repairs. I bored several 1 1/4 " holes through the laminates to the plywood core with a hole saw. Be sure that the hole saw you used has a short pilot bit or you might end up with a 5/16" hole through the hull ( I know this to be true). I then vacumed as much of the water out as I could with a shop vac. I also found that the trick of pouring acetone down into the holes to displace the water really works well. I finally cut away the fiberglass in the area of the battery box on both sides of the volcano (something I would not recomend unless the wood is really bad) as the plywood core is beyond salvation in those areas. I plan to replace the wood in those areas and attempt to repair the rest of the wood and the delamination with CPES which is available on the rot doctor website that Eric mentions. There are other threads on this site that address this problem with solutions ranging from the above to cutting out the cabin sole and repalcing the stringers. Time consuming and expensive, but mine was a free boat and I'm having fun and learning quite a bit. Good Luck, work slowly and review ALL of your options. |
Lynn Buchanan Nevada City, CA
Boat Name: SAILYNN
Model/Year: SWING 1984
Hull No. 11994
Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA |
02/21/2006 11:06 AM Pacific Time
greg, once you get fixed, are you interested in cruising or racing with some other c22's here in northern calif. send me an e-mail at [email protected] |
Tim & Susan White Roanoke, VA
Boat Name: ScrapingBottom
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1975
Hull No. 5038
Hailing Port: Smith Mountain Lake, VA |
02/21/2006 4:22 PM Pacific Time
I have a question regarding my previous posts. Right under the walkway area between the table on port side and the sliding kitchen area on starboard.....how thick is the boat at that point to the hull? The reason I ask is ....could there be a thick core to the boat that has taken on a lot of water? Is this something that I can even get to since the catalina 22 has the liner? Any help from you guys is greatly appreaciated !!!!!
Thanks
Tim White |
Larry Greenville, SC
Boat Name: Kemo Sabe
Model/Year: C-22 , 1973
Hull No. 2229
Hailing Port: www.keoweesailingclub.com |
02/21/2006 7:14 PM Pacific Time
>>>>Right under the walkway area between the table on port side and the sliding kitchen area on starboard.....how thick is the boat at that point to the hull?..>>>>>>
If I understand your question right, the floor of the cabin sole is part of the liner and there's a gap under there before you get to the inside bilge of the hull. There is NO WOOD or core. Only the solid fiberglass hull bottom.
Good luck,
Larry |
Tim & Susan White Roanoke, VA
Boat Name: ScrapingBottom
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1975
Hull No. 5038
Hailing Port: Smith Mountain Lake, VA |
02/22/2006 6:05 AM Pacific Time
Larry,
Thanks for educating me on what was below the cabin sole. Whew !!...I feel better now knowing that theres NO WOOD core below that area....... because I was begining to worry about making the decision to buy this boat in the first place. I can deal with all the other areas and dry it out very well by using a dehumidifyer and fans perhaps. Anyway thanks for your help !!!!
Tim White
All IN
Hull # 5038 |
Peter South Daytona, Florida
Boat Name: (Working On A Name)
Model/Year: C-22, 1974
Hull No. 2679
Hailing Port: South Daytona, Florida |
02/22/2006 9:07 AM Pacific Time
Tim,
I have a 1976 Hull #6168 and there is a plywood stiffener used in the hull. It is about 12 inches wide and 96 inches long, 1/4 inch thick, about 1 inch off of each side of the center keel slot. If your boat has this stiffener, you can feel/see it. Run your hand down the hull in the port, aft settee. You can feel a rise in the hull where it is glassed in. I also have a 1974 salvage C-22 which does not have this stiffener and the hull is at least 1/2 inch thick (I know this as I am slicing up the boat to see how it is made). C-22s (at least in the earlier years) are not consistently the same. I can email you pictures if you're interested.
Peter |
Peter South Daytona, Florida
Boat Name: (Working On A Name)
Model/Year: C-22, 1974
Hull No. 2679
Hailing Port: South Daytona, Florida |
02/22/2006 9:41 AM Pacific Time
Tim,
I just rechecked the 1974 C-22, which also has the rise in the hull that I suggested using as a determining factor, but it is solid fiberglass (I just drilled a hold through the hull to confirm that). However, my 1976 does have the plywood stiffener. The PO had mounted something using short screws. The boat sat for some time with water in the hull. When I got it and started drying her out, I noticed water coming from these holes whenever I pressed down. I took a utility knife and sliced the thin layer of fiberglass and, sure enough, plywood. In my case, it starts at the aft end of the aft storage locker in the V-berth and ends just past the cockpit scupper drain hole. Hopefully, for the sake of others, this is the only one they did this too, but I doubt it.
Peter |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
02/22/2006 11:48 AM Pacific Time
Peter,
I'd like to see those pix of the hull. My email is (take out the ">>>>s" and convert the "at" to an "@" and "dot" to a "."
hiquk9s>>>at>>>yahoo>>>dot>>>com
Thanks!
Eric |
David F. Abilene, TX
Boat Name: Clair de Lune
Model/Year: 1976
Hull No. 6140
Hailing Port: Fort Phantom Lake |
02/22/2006 3:03 PM Pacific Time
Peter,
I have a '76 also #6140. So she's the slightly older sister ship to yours.
Mine also has the stiffener boards in the hull. On the port side it seems to be waterlogged. I haven't really decided what approach I'm going to take yet.
David |
Tim & Susan White Roanoke, VA
Boat Name: ScrapingBottom
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1975
Hull No. 5038
Hailing Port: Smith Mountain Lake, VA |
02/22/2006 4:25 PM Pacific Time
Peter,
Yes I would love to see the pictures of the inside hull on your boats. (My email is listed below. ) It seems that the areas you have desribed are Identicle to mine(plywood stiffners) on the 1975 ..#5038 hull. I tell you what Im going to do.....tomorrow when I go to my shop I'll take some pictures and load them on a site so that you can see what im talkin about.
Thanks and Ill talk to you tomorrow !!!
Tim [email protected] |
Tim & Susan White Roanoke, VA
Boat Name: ScrapingBottom
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1975
Hull No. 5038
Hailing Port: Smith Mountain Lake, VA |
02/22/2006 4:49 PM Pacific Time
David f,
Actually my problem is very similar to yours. My areas that are saturated are on the port side under the port settee opening all the way back to the scupper holes. I know its saturated because when I drill into it with a 1/8 " drill water just comes out when its mashed on with your hand or foot. The approch that im taking at the moment to fix this is that I have the boat under a large shed type building to keep the boat from getting any rainwater. Then I have drilled holes about an inch apart all the way from the after part of the V berth back to the area where the scupper holes are. Since the weather has been cold here in Virginia ( 30's & 40's) I have been running a small heater in there along with a dehumidifer. The dehumidfier says on the box that it will only work at 60 degrees or above. The heater keeps the cabin at around 60 degrees. I have no Idea how long this process of drying out will take. Once it does I figure I will fill the little holes up with thin epoxy or perhaps the ECPS that Eric mentions. Then patch any areas with Marine Tex. Then I will paint it with a polyurethane paint.
So David if you or anyone has any other Ideas they would like to bounce around that would be great.
Sure am excited about getting my boat in the water this year !!!!
Tim White
Hull Number #5038
All Inn |
Aaron M Benham 33a Loomis Hights
Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project
Model/Year: 1978 C22
Hull No. 8070
Hailing Port: |
02/22/2006 7:10 PM Pacific Time
Tim and David F. Water saturated hull stringers seems to be a common problem with these boats. I discovered the problem looking for the source of unexplained water that kept appearing in the bottom of the boat a dry rainless day after I would dry it out (boat is not in the water). As I said above, I was amazed at how much water that wood could hold. The hard part is drying it out. especially at this time of year. If there is still standing water down there, a dehumidifier could take months to dry the wood out. You didn't say how big the holes you drilled were. I used a hole saw to bore three holes on each side large enough to accomodate the hose to a wet/dry vacume. I then taped the vacume hose to the first hole and let it run for an hour. I did that with each hole until there no more water seeped out when I stood on the floor. I then took a one gallon can of acetone and poured it into the holes to displace the rest of the water. I read of this on another thread on this site. After letting the acetone sit for a while, I repated the above process. The next day, the wood was completly dry. In the spring I plan to replace some of the really rotted ( and accessable) wood and seal the rest with the CPES (clear penatrating epoxy sealer). I have heard good things about it but have never used it. If anyone has used it or any of the other rotdoctor products, please let me know. otherwise, stay tuned. |
David F. Abilene, TX
Boat Name: Clair de Lune
Model/Year: 1976
Hull No. 6140
Hailing Port: Fort Phantom Lake |
02/22/2006 7:26 PM Pacific Time
Aaron,
Did you still sail your boat while you were in the middle of these repairs?
The bad thing about living in the south is since we have so little winter, I can sail year-round and hate the thought of having the boat out of commission for too long. I may have to wait until August when it's miserably hot and the evaporation will be better. |
Tim & Susan White Roanoke, VA
Boat Name: ScrapingBottom
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1975
Hull No. 5038
Hailing Port: Smith Mountain Lake, VA |
02/22/2006 8:19 PM Pacific Time
Aaron,
The size holes I drilled were aprox 1/8 " wide.......I guess I need to make them larger based on what your saying. So are you saying to make them the same size as the hose on a wet vac...about 2 " wide?
Thanks
Tim |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
02/22/2006 8:26 PM Pacific Time
For Tim and Aaron...I have not yet used the Rotdoc product. Having said that, here's what I have found out:
Tim ...the way I found out about Rotdoc was I had asked about thinning West System epoxy, but was talked out of it primarily due to substantial differences in the molecular make up of the two epoxies...this passed on to me by a guy who said he was an epoxy chemist. Anyhow, subsequent research and comments from others have backed up his statement that the Rotdoc stuff is apparently better "designed" to do the restoration type of job you are talking about. Information on their website seems to confirm this, and I heard from a couple of people who used the product and they were more than happy with the results. No one posted about being dissatisfied.
Aaron...I have not used the Rotdoc product (yet) but several people on other lists who have gave it glowing reviews. And the info and diagrams on their web site do tend to back up the idea that they are serious and professional about their product. BTW, they, like you, are dead bent on making sure the wood to be treated is as dry as possible before applying product.
Good luck to both of you. (And to me...the only place I've found so far that will need treatment is in the hatch roof.
Eric |
Paul David Melbourne Australia
Boat Name: Reflections
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13369
Hailing Port: Melbourne Australia |
02/23/2006 4:47 PM Pacific Time
Is this an issue for new styles? My complaint about build quality is that I've got cracks in the cockpit floor where the floor meets the wall, both port and stbd. I've also got cracks at the top of the wall where I brace my feet when heeling. I had intended to simply glass over the cracks from the inside and fill outside with epoxy filler and gel coat.
Paul / Reflections Australia |
Aaron M Benham 33a Loomis Hights
Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project
Model/Year: 1978 C22
Hull No. 8070
Hailing Port: |
02/24/2006 3:57 AM Pacific Time
Tim, you could make the holes that large. I drilled mine to be about 1 1/4 inches and actually used a Bissel carpet cleaning vac I found at the dump. I would use an attachment that reduces the diameter of the hose to about that size though a larger hole might dry the wood faster.
As for sailing the boat during the repair, Tidley-Idley is a project boat and is not yet sea worthy. There are numerous other repairs tha need to be made before the boat ever sees the h20. As it is, I'm going to need to dry it out again before I complete this repair as it flooded again when the last big snow melted. I would not complain about having "so little winter." I got most of the water out so that it would not freeze and crack the fiberglass but i'm sure I wil have standing H20 in the bottom in the spring. |
Linda Hoffecker Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
05/04/2014 10:23 PM Pacific Time
Hi, my '82 has the scuppers in the front part of the cockpit and it's a stupid design so what where they thinking? I can see where you can undo the hoses to ream them out because I can't figure out how else to unclog them.. If anyone has any ideas how to do this (the hanger didn't work) so I don't have to take it apart, I'd appreciate that info. Also, has anyone put in a drain in the stern area?
It rained for 2 days straight last week and my drains (am on trailer in driveway) were clogged, unbeknownst to me, the boat and trailer were on their hind legs because I didn't know about the clog...Bailing and pumping for ever. There was about 2 ft of water under the cockpit, too. This makes me sick. The P.O. did so much to upgrade on this boat and I wish he'd have added the transom drain, too. I can't find it in the 'store'......?? HELP! |
Wes Sherrill Concord, NC
Boat Name: Summer Breeze
Model/Year: C 22/1988 fin keel
Hull No. 14333
Hailing Port: Lake Tillery, NC |
05/05/2014 9:00 PM Pacific Time
Linda, Have you considered the transom drain assembly (part # H2022) or scupper drain (#D2227) sold by Catalina Direct? |