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Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Racing / Wing Keel and racing
 
 
Author Wing Keel and racing
Smutzer, Russell
Arlington TX

Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
01/12/2004 10:28 AM Pacific Time

Hi all new member here in Texas. I recently sold my O'Day 17 which was primarily used for racing. I wish to move up to a boat with more cruising possibilities and still be able to race. I have looked at some Catalina 22's that are late seventies but hate the way an old boat looks. Gel coat is dust and interior is ragged. I see a 1989 close enough to go get (5 hrs away), but it is a wing keel. Can someone give me the pros and cons of the wing vs. swing?

Will it be slower racing?

Dose it have more interior room?

Why can do I not see any mid 90's boats for sale?

Thanks
Russell
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC

Boat Name: Forspacious Seas

Model/Year: Wing - 1989

Hull No. 14907

Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC
01/12/2004 12:49 PM Pacific Time

Russell-I currently own an '89 wing-keel and I love it. I previously owned a '75 swing-keel and I had many problems with it. It's nice not to have my head under the forward setee hatch so much of the time, locating and fixing cracks as well as all the other keel maintenance required. Look at how much discussion time is devoted to swing-keel problems. The fixed keel, in my opinion, is also a more stable boat. It has a greater moment due to its heavier weight. Sudden gusts don't heel you over as quickly as with the other model-it is generally a lot more stable. This will probably make it a slower boat compared to the swing-keel model. Another drawback is that you now have a plow anchor on the bottom of your boat so don't ground her in sand or you will have to dig her out. The swing-keel is a lot easier to free. The good news though is that if you get stuck, at least you'll be sitting straight or vertical to the bottom instead of heeled over.
Smutzer, Russell
Arlington TX

Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
01/13/2004 8:47 AM Pacific Time

Dose the fix keel have more interior head room then the swing keel?



Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
01/13/2004 10:03 PM Pacific Time

The fixed keel models don't have any difference in the interior room. However, the later model has more
interior space than the older models and they pay for it
through a lot more weight.
Chuck Beesley
[email protected]



Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
01/13/2004 10:04 PM Pacific Time

I guess I should have added, I have a '90 model wing keel and really like it.
Chuck Beesley
Bob Larkin
Corvallis, OR

Boat Name: New Wave

Model/Year: 1988 Wing

Hull No. 14710

Hailing Port: Fern Ridge, OR
01/14/2004 4:05 PM Pacific Time

We have an 88 wing and are happy with it. But, can anybody tell me how to dump a length of kelp from the keel without stopping the boat?? One length of kelp seems to be about one lost kt!!

I know we are supposed to watch for the kelp, but...

Bob
David
Fairport, NY

Boat Name: 2nd Chance

Model/Year: Catalina 22 Wing Keel 1999

Hull No. 15108

Hailing Port: Pultneyville, NY
04/02/2005 8:08 AM Pacific Time

Russell,
I recently bought a 1999 wing keel C22. One of the main advantages was the cruising comfort. The swing keel has the crank arm rigth below the cabin entrance. My kids would have hit that numerous times. The wing is more stable overall, but maybe a tad slower, although I have read others in this forum claim that they have raced competitively against swing keels. Rig tuning is very critical, ( I have yet to get it right!!).
Biggest advantage is maintainence!, or lack of it, I should say. Many articles about swing keel maintainence.
Watch out for your rudder, it will draft more than the keel. It is possible to go over an obstruction with the keel only to hit it with the rudder??

Dave,
2nd Chance
1999 C22, Pultneyville, NY
Rich Fox
Indianapolis

Boat Name: SeDepecher

Model/Year: 2006

Hull No. 15582

Hailing Port: Indianapolis, IN
04/03/2005 5:21 PM Pacific Time

Russell-

I own a 1988 wing keel and frequently race it. The wing keel is not a competitive boat in the C22 class. For Club/PHRF racing, it will do well, if properly equipped.

If your plans are to race the boat against other Catalina 22s in your area, you may find yourself disappointed with the performance of the wing keel if your goal is to be a contender for a trophy in the C22 class.

On the otherhand, sometime in the early 1990s a wing keel boat did place 2nd in the Gold Fleet at a Catalina 22 National Regatta. The two times I have raced in the National Regatta (Silver Fleet) half the swing keel boats finished in front of me, the other half behind me.

Most of the wing keel models were built between 1988 and 1992. A few boats may have been built in 1993. I suspect production halted in 1994 in preparation for the new MKII boat that debut in 1995, which also offers a wing keel as an option.

With the wing keel you have a little more room in the cabin as there is no swing keel casing consuming valuable cabin floor space.

The wing keel is zero maintenance...except painting.

In the Midwestern states the wing keel boats are highly sought after and usually sell at a premium price within a matter of days or a few weeks, if in good condition.

Rich Fox
SePlaire #14411
Westfield, IN




Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas

Boat Name: Torch of Freedom

Model/Year: C-22/'76

Hull No. 6448

Hailing Port: Arlington YC
04/04/2005 4:45 AM Pacific Time

Hi Folks,
After all the talk, last year, by Russ, about getting a Catalina, he went out and bought a Hunter 24 or 26.
Al Ge
Everett Ballenger
Beaufort, SC

Boat Name: Stray Cat

Model/Year: Catalina 22 / 1989

Hull No. 15005

Hailing Port: Beaufort
05/03/2011 1:51 PM Pacific Time

I know the last post to this subject was years ago, but rather than start a new thread, I thought I would chime in! I bought a 89 wing keel with pop top kick up rudder etc, for cruising about 5 yrs ago. Never intended to race. Only ever raced once in my life 22 years ago. Came in 2nd though!! Anyway last Fall, my yacht club started a PHRF series. Only by chance did the club manager ask me if I was entering the series, I had not heard of it even knew for sure what the PHRF was at that time. A long story short, I found 2 crew members, and did enter the series. Our start was a disaster, and we were so sloooow! - with my 21 year old sales, but a least we did not finish last! Obviously a lot had to change to have any chance of being competitive. I put on a lot smaller motor I had laying around for years. Took as much stuff off the boat as I thought would make a difference. Next week we came in 5th! and each week improved the boat reduced the crew by one. By the end of series, we actually won a race, and the series in very fluky winds, with our 21 year old sails! Ok - what were we racing against? J22 - C&C34, Hunter34,Beneteau34, Catlina30 etc. So not slow boats.

This year we got a we got more serious. I bought Waters Racing sail (totally change the boat!!) inboard sheet tracks, fully adjustable back stay etc, etc! This winter's series we had two 3rd places and two wins - to again win the series. So a wing keel may not be the first choice for National Class racing, but in PHRF racing...they can be very competitive. Get out on the water, and try it!!
John D Griffith
Loveland

Boat Name: No Worries

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
05/03/2011 1:51 PM Pacific Time

I know the last post to this subject was years ago, but rather than start a new thread, I thought I would chime in! I bought a 89 wing keel with pop top kick up rudder etc, for cruising about 5 yrs ago. Never intended to race. Only ever raced once in my life 22 years ago. Came in 2nd though!! Anyway last Fall, my yacht club started a PHRF series. Only by chance did the club manager ask me if I was entering the series, I had not heard of it even knew for sure what the PHRF was at that time. A long story short, I found 2 crew members, and did enter the series. Our start was a disaster, and we were so sloooow! - with my 21 year old sales, but a least we did not finish last! Obviously a lot had to change to have any chance of being competitive. I put on a lot smaller motor I had laying around for years. Took as much stuff off the boat as I thought would make a difference. Next week we came in 5th! and each week improved the boat reduced the crew by one. By the end of series, we actually won a race, and the series in very fluky winds, with our 21 year old sails! Ok - what were we racing against? J22 - C&C34, Hunter34,Beneteau34, Catlina30 etc. So not slow boats.

This year we got a we got more serious. I bought Waters Racing sail (totally change the boat!!) inboard sheet tracks, fully adjustable back stay etc, etc! This winter's series we had two 3rd places and two wins - to again win the series. So a wing keel may not be the first choice for National Class racing, but in PHRF racing...they can be very competitive. Get out on the water, and try it!!
Louis Plaisance
PRAIRIEVILLE, LA

Boat Name: Saint Benedict

Model/Year: C22/1988

Hull No. 14686

Hailing Port: Lake PONTCHARTRAIN, LA
05/03/2011 2:09 PM Pacific Time

Hello Evertt,

Congratulations on your successes. I too race a New Style boat in phrf races on Lake Pontchartrain. Not nearly as successfully as you though. Am wanting to instal inboard tracks and would be interested in your set-up. Could you send me a photo?

[email protected]

Thanks in advance,
ljp
Everett Ballenger
Beaufort, SC

Boat Name: Stray Cat

Model/Year: Catalina 22 / 1989

Hull No. 15005

Hailing Port: Beaufort
05/03/2011 2:46 PM Pacific Time

Louis, will do with the photos - give me a few days though. If you read all the posts, blogs etc you can, on how the make a Cat22 fast...and racing in general, you will sail your boat faster. Read the class rules, and try do EVERYTHING you can afford to do. Taking weight off is pretty cheap, but makes such a huge difference on a 22. Do you keep the boat in the water? I have mine on a trailer, It has bottom paint, but I smoothed it down with a drywall sander - pretty smooth to touch now.
John D Griffith
Loveland

Boat Name: No Worries

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
05/03/2011 2:46 PM Pacific Time

Louis, will do with the photos - give me a few days though. If you read all the posts, blogs etc you can, on how the make a Cat22 fast...and racing in general, you will sail your boat faster. Read the class rules, and try do EVERYTHING you can afford to do. Taking weight off is pretty cheap, but makes such a huge difference on a 22. Do you keep the boat in the water? I have mine on a trailer, It has bottom paint, but I smoothed it down with a drywall sander - pretty smooth to touch now.
Steve Morgan
Bayport , NY

Boat Name: no name yet

Model/Year: 1988 wing keel

Hull No. #14444

Hailing Port: Bayport NY
05/03/2011 3:26 PM Pacific Time

Hi Everett,
Figured I would chime in as well. I purchased a 1988 wing w/pop top and furler in 2002(?). Never thought I would ever race. Started crewing on an Oday 27 for a few summers of racing for the past five years. The Bellport Bay yacht club started what we call PHRF'lite' series two years ago. Only for cruisers looking to race a little. We dont go out if it's over 15-18 knots. We have a mix of all different type and size boats and a nice BBQ when we are done. We finished 1st for the summer of '09 and 2nd last year overall. I can point pretty well against the group 'for a wing keel' !!
Learned a lot from racing rather than just puttering around the bay.
Louis Plaisance
PRAIRIEVILLE, LA

Boat Name: Saint Benedict

Model/Year: C22/1988

Hull No. 14686

Hailing Port: Lake PONTCHARTRAIN, LA
05/03/2011 9:00 PM Pacific Time

Hello Steve/Everett,

What's y'all's phrf rating. On Pontchartrain I wuz assigined a 270. I think a 280 would have been appropriate as I don't fly a spin.

ljp
John D Griffith
Loveland

Boat Name: No Worries

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
05/04/2011 8:17 AM Pacific Time

Hi Steve - great to hear you are also doing well with a wing keeled boat. Our regular race committee gives us a rating of 273 - they say that is an "average" number. But we did a race last month - same club different committee and we got 280. That was the race we beat a J22 for the first time!! Setting the boat up for racing, certainly does improve the way they point, and I feel makes them more fun to sail. It need not be super expensive either. I guess racing sails are the big ticket item - but calls to various racing lofts, could produce some great deals. As "serious" racers seem to change their sails very year, there are usually "as new" sails to be had at a substantial savings. Racing sails transformed my boat - but then again, I had the original sails on the boat - so anything would have been an improvement!!
Everett Ballenger
Beaufort, SC

Boat Name: Stray Cat

Model/Year: Catalina 22 / 1989

Hull No. 15005

Hailing Port: Beaufort
05/04/2011 8:17 AM Pacific Time

Hi Steve - great to hear you are also doing well with a wing keeled boat. Our regular race committee gives us a rating of 273 - they say that is an "average" number. But we did a race last month - same club different committee and we got 280. That was the race we beat a J22 for the first time!! Setting the boat up for racing, certainly does improve the way they point, and I feel makes them more fun to sail. It need not be super expensive either. I guess racing sails are the big ticket item - but calls to various racing lofts, could produce some great deals. As "serious" racers seem to change their sails very year, there are usually "as new" sails to be had at a substantial savings. Racing sails transformed my boat - but then again, I had the original sails on the boat - so anything would have been an improvement!!
Steve Morgan
Bayport , NY

Boat Name: no name yet

Model/Year: 1988 wing keel

Hull No. #14444

Hailing Port: Bayport NY
05/04/2011 12:21 PM Pacific Time

mine is a 278
 
 
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