Cruising Issues

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Author Boat stability?
Brian Powell
Warren, Oregon

Boat Name: Yahct of Fun

Model/Year: 1975

Hull No.

Hailing Port: St. Helens
09/08/2005 10:12 PM Pacific Time

Does anyone know how much wind speed a typical C-22 will safely take broad side. When sailing in 25 knot winds, it seems pretty easy to list at 45 degrees. I have not heard of C-22 capsizing. Can anyone quantify the stability factors. How far is too far (unsafe).



Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
09/09/2005 4:02 AM Pacific Time

Hi Brian,

The boat will sail with windows being washed by the water, don]t know what angle that is. Not a terribly fast way to sail and leeway is almost as much as forward speed.

In a knockdown (80 degrees or better), the boat will come back up on its own if no one is hanging on the mast or shrouds. However, if someone is hanging onto the boat by the mast or shrouds, she will lay on her side. The issue then is water entering the boat, as it will come over the coaming into the cockpit, and enter the maincabin through the companionway, or the aft locker when the seat lid falls open from being vertical. 22s have sunk from this.

To stop water entry, even with people hanging on the shrouds, locking clasps on the cockpit locker lids and putting hatchboards in while sailing in heavy conditions will work. Even better is to have crew let go of the boat or move to the hull instead of the mast when she takes a knockdown.

We think 15 degrees heel is about right. We start to flatten the main at 10 to 11 knots, reef the main around 14 or 15 knots, and go to a working jib at 18 to 20 (or flatten the genny by moving the fairleads all the way aft if its a very short time issue). Above that we flatten sails again by moving the jib fairleads back and putting a lot more backstay in. When it gets into the upper 30s to 40 knots, we sail on reefed main alone. We have raced in all these conditions (for short periods in the upper ranges), and she sails fine. Best small heavy air boat I know.

Worst knockdown we ever had was in 10 to 12 knots of air sailing close hauled when a gust came across the beam. We laid the genny on the water and she came up in about 3 or 4 seconds as she rounded to the wind. We then turned and sailed back to retreive our type IV cushion which had floated out of the cockpit, and continued sailing without any further incident.

I think the 22 likes flat sails and small sails as the wind builds. She doesn't need a lot of power to move nicely.

Tom
Quixotic #7555
Chesapeake Bay
John Haggis
Victoria BC

Boat Name: Windfall

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1973

Hull No. 2934

Hailing Port: Victoria BC
09/09/2005 6:53 AM Pacific Time

I was out in a gale last night and the boat was amazing. I was glade I was close to home however but I was never in doubt I would make it safely. The boat really is amazing.
ideal wind for me is 15-20kts for sailing, 10-15kts for passengers, and 5-10kts for cocktials.
John
Brian Powell
Warren, Oregon

Boat Name: Yahct of Fun

Model/Year: 1975

Hull No.

Hailing Port: St. Helens
09/09/2005 9:05 PM Pacific Time

Thank you for the great testimonies and also adding to the confidence I have in my C-22.

Brian
Galen
Humber

Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
05/01/2007 10:54 PM Pacific Time

I am interested in buying a Catalina 22 but have heard that they are not very stable and need two guys hiking on the rail in 10 - 15 knots. Can anyone who has a Catalina tell me if this is true, I'd like to be able to sail single handedly and know I won't have to worry about keeping it down. Is there a capsize rating for the Catalina 22?
Robert Donehoo
Duluth Ga

Boat Name: Shady Deal

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1979

Hull No. 8940

Hailing Port: Lake Lanier Ga
05/02/2007 8:56 AM Pacific Time

I have been sailing the northern gulf coast cruise single handed for several years. 99% of the time we have smooth sailing but once or twice we have sailed all day in 20 -25 plus winds and 3 -6 foot waves.One of the most fun and exciting days sailing Ihave ever had. My wife and I were sailing in Destin, she was in the cabin. I saw the bridge at Ft Walton dissapear in the rain and new we were about to get hit by the wind. As I turned the boat we were knocked flat. All my wife said was how neat the fish looked through the side window. She was standing on the port side ,literally, by the window. The Catalina 22 swing keel just righted itself after the blast and we sailed on
I (and almost everyone) am totally confidant in a Catalina 22's stability. This little boat is very stable.
Galen
Humber

Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
05/02/2007 9:31 PM Pacific Time

How much weather can they take before you have to head in?
Robert Donehoo
Duluth Ga

Boat Name: Shady Deal

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1979

Hull No. 8940

Hailing Port: Lake Lanier Ga
05/03/2007 7:42 AM Pacific Time

Galen, the c22 with proper sails rigged for the weather (reef 10 minutes before you need to) can handle more that you would want to. My sailing experience is limited to the c22. I only had the boat out twice before I went on my first north gulf coast cruise (ft walton to wolfs bay al.) single handed.
To answer your question. Go in when it ain't fun no more. The boat is not the limiting factor.
Bilbo
Youngstown, Ohio

Boat Name: Sea Dog

Model/Year: Catalina 22 1987

Hull No. 13971

Hailing Port: Andover, Ohio
05/04/2007 4:35 AM Pacific Time

Galen,
I think that when I purchased ours, the reason that I decided on looking into the Catalina 22 was when I sat on the banks of the lake that we were going to sail on and watched on a windy day. The C-22s were looking safer to me as far as how upright they were sailing and how slowly they laid down in the gusts.

There is a capsize ratio for the Catalina 22 ( 2.32)
I think that this feature compares fine with it's competitors such as Cal 21, Hunters, C&C, Precision, Venture 21,San Juan 21 and the likes.
This ratio is according to this
http://www.image-ination.com/sailcalc.html

but even this page author writes: "This is just a rough figure of merit and controversial as to its use." I believe that this is a ratio detrmined only by the displacement weight and the width of the beam. I think that one needs to factor in the length of the boat, the center of gravity of that weight, the mast height and the square footage of the sails as factors for capsize.

I had read something about the length of the boat vs the wave height and this size of boat gets into trouble with seas that are somewhere around 7 feet high. That is ocean waves not inland lake waves which can be steeper and closer. When in heavier seas or breaking waves, you'd want the boat to travel with the waves and not have the waves attacking the beam. There is a point where the wave will cause the boat to turn beam to and this is about 7 ft. On the peak of the wave the rudder loses it's grip and there is no control, then the boat turns beam on and the next waves breaks over the side causing the boat to roll over. I know that my wife does not like it when it gets rough and that is one of my safety valves. She has issues with waves when they get to about 3.5 ft and lets me know that we should get off the lake. :) On or lake, the wind would be too much for my liking if the waves werearound the 3 ft height and we would have already probably reefed down to the outboard by then.

Many C-22 people have said that this boat goes better with it heeling less than 15 degrees. Adjust your rig and sail size so that you are relatively flat. The reason has to do with the wide and flatter hull shape, and the fact that the keel functions better when it is deepest in the water. When the angle of heel exceeds 15 degs, the boat begins side slipping more, the sails start dumping wind off the top and the boat does not go as fast. Better to reduce the sails and get the boat on it's feet.

That being said, I think that our primary concern with this boat is generally with sudden knockdowns from gusts.
Check this thread:
http://www.catalinadirect.com/forums/fr_topic.cfm?topic_id=7072
Particularly about hatch boards and securing the seat lockers.

I think that one should be careful, take some time to learn how the boat responds before pushing it on the days that are more windy.

"two guys hiking on the rail in 10 - 15 knots" --Probably not necessary if the sails are trimmed well. I do single hand. I have all of my necessary lines reacheable from the cockpit. I have added a jib downhaul and single line main reefing.


Bob Moss
Spokane, WA

Boat Name: Aerie

Model/Year: C22/1986

Hull No. 13806

Hailing Port: Spokane, WA
05/06/2007 2:42 PM Pacific Time

In my young and stupid days on the 70s, I routinely took my C22 solo out into the Atlantic off Charleston, SC. I got into some serious weather at times but not once did I have trouble with the boat or it's stability. As she heals she gets more of a weather helm but that's just the boats way of telling to to take in a reef. If you're planning on healing her over, be certain the keel is locked down.
 
 
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