Tony Pacaro
Lansdale, PA
Boat Name: Provolone
Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1988
Hull No. 14733
Hailing Port: Quakertown, PA |
 10/23/2005 1:41 PM Pacific Time
I have a C22 and am researching jib furlers. The majority of the furlers in our marina are CDI, followed by Schaeffer and Harken. Upon closer inspection of the CDI furlers, I have yet to see one with a straight foil. The foils I have seen are either bent (s-curve), twisted, or both. Is this common? Is this a problem? Are the boat owners in our marina doing something wrong? I have read many positive reviews of the CDI furler, but my personal observations of the foils leaves me with a negative impression. Comments please. |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
10/23/2005 3:47 PM Pacific Time
I really think the cdi furler is a very nice design. Bent, or kinked foils are probably from mishandling when the furler is off the boat. The foil is of plastic construction and is susesptible to kinks. I don't think performance will be affected by the bent foil. If you are racing, you probably would not be using a furler anyway.
Butchie
C22 Swing Keel
#13320 1986
"Sandy Bottoms"
Beachwood, NJ (Barnegat Bay)
http://home.comcast.net/~d.batch/ |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
10/23/2005 7:45 PM Pacific Time
Please see my discussion about furlers and CDI furlers over on the Catalina Owners site at:
http://tinyurl.com/b2sdb
and
http://tinyurl.com/am6yq
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Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
10/24/2005 3:37 AM Pacific Time
I have a Schaefer Snap-Furl, and love it. It has a round foil and cannot kink. It has a standard halyard, rather than the internal halyard of the CDI. It is much cheaper than Harken. I does require a non-standard wire luff, so if you already have the furling sail, CDI or Harken might be a better choice. |
Peter
Stamford, CT
Boat Name: Au Contraire
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1986
Hull No. 13325
Hailing Port: Stamford |
10/25/2005 5:31 AM Pacific Time
I have the Harken furler and for me it is great. No kinks. It is easy to change headsails because of the dual grooves, but I hardly ever change them. I only have a 135 and a storm jib. The furler makes the 135 reefable.
As a furler it works beautifuly. However, when dropping the mast, which I do once every 2 or 3 years, it becomes rather unwieldly because it is rigid.
I cannot measure the forestay tension because of the furler. But, I have an adjustable back stay and I can easily measure that tension. When I tune my rigging I start off with everything slack. First I put some tension on my forestay and then the back stay. Then I Hang a weight to the main halyard and watch where it intersects the boom (with no one on the boat). I then put the Loos gage on the back stay and adjust the tension ,so that when there is just a little tension on the back stay the rake of the mast is correct..Then I go back and forth making sure the rake is correct. Finally, I mark the back stay adjuster and start on the shrouds. I am not sure if this is the best way to adjust the rigging, but everything seems to be fine. The entire procedure takes about 1 hour at my slip.
To make a long story short, if I was trailering my boat I would not get this furler. However, since I keep my boat in the water, the Harken is perfect for me. |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
10/25/2005 6:05 PM Pacific Time
Hi Peter!
Do you happen to know the pin to pin length of your forestay and if so how far screwed in are your turnbuckles.
Also, what is the luff of your 135? Have you also by chance measured the LP to confirm the 135% with a J value of 8 feet? |
Peter
Stamford, CT
Boat Name: Au Contraire
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1986
Hull No. 13325
Hailing Port: Stamford |
10/26/2005 4:50 AM Pacific Time
Hi Bayard,
I don't remember shortening the forestay, that doesn't mean that I didn't. We did upgrade all the standing rigging at one time, but I don't remember anything about shortening the forestay.
I read your articles and I plan on checking my jib when I take it down in the next few weeks.
By the way, I tried calling you this summer. I think I left a message. If you want to go out sailing this weekend, call me. I keep my boat at The Cove. |
Tony Pacaro
Lansdale, PA
Boat Name: Provolone
Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1988
Hull No. 14733
Hailing Port: Quakertown, PA |
10/26/2005 5:26 PM Pacific Time
Thank you all for your input. I'll let you know how I made out next seaon. |
Artur Piotrowski
Burlington, Ct
Boat Name: Spirit
Model/Year: C22 1986
Hull No. 13485
Hailing Port: Bantam, Ct |
11/02/2005 7:25 AM Pacific Time
Hi folks. I have an issue somewhat related to this topic.
I will appreciate any input from people who have their Genoa with window installed for better forward visibility.
Last spring I got my new sails from Doyle, 150% Genoa (on CDI furler) and 2+2 main. Recently, I called Doyle and asked about the window for my Genoa. $40 will do 1'x3' window I just have to mark the location on the sail.
Could you give me some numbers and your opinions on this subject? Thanks a lot.
-Art |
Peter
Stamford, CT
Boat Name: Au Contraire
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1986
Hull No. 13325
Hailing Port: Stamford |
12/07/2005 8:48 PM Pacific Time
I am really writing to answer Bayard. The dimensions of my jib which is used on the Harken Roller Furler is as follows:
Luff = 24' 6"
Foot = 12' 6"
Leach (?) = 22' 7"
These dimensions are from the inside of the rings (not very nautical term)
How does that match what you were figuring on? |
Peter
Stamford, CT
Boat Name: Au Contraire
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1986
Hull No. 13325
Hailing Port: Stamford |
12/08/2005 5:50 AM Pacific Time
Bayard, After reading your note in MK II foresail discussion, I felt I should add that the measurements above are the length of the material (i.e. the length of "foot" material is 12' 6") |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
12/08/2005 2:29 PM Pacific Time
Hi Peter!
You need to re-measure your foot. It is a straight line from the clew to the tack. If by chance you get more than about 10 ½ half feet, I think you have more than a 135%.
To measure your LP% overlap, you’ll need to measure the distance from the clew in a straight line intersecting perpendicularly (90 degree angle) to the luff.
The J measurement on a Catalina 22 is eight feet. So you take the LP measurement just made and divide that by eight that will produce a number of 1 followed by a decimal fraction.
For example, lets say your LP is twelve feet. Dividing twelve feet by 8 is 1.5. 1.5 is then expressed as a LP percent overlap as 150%.
For a 135, the LP should be about 10 feet 9 ½ inches. To back into this, rewrite the equation LP/J = 135% to LP = J(1.35) to get LP = 8(1.35) or LP = 10.8 feet. Multiplying .8 by 12 converts 8 tenths of a foot into inches, which would be 9.6 inches or roughly 9 ½ inches.
Thanx for measuring your luff. I wonder if that is the maximum luff for a Harken furler on a C-22, that is, do you think you could have a longer luff, or do you think the sail is maxed out with a hoist of 24 feet 6 inches.
Also, who made your headsail?
|
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
12/08/2005 4:32 PM Pacific Time
Bayard, your explanation is very good, but your comment
"If by chance you get more than about 10 ½ half feet, I think you have more than a 135%" is in error.
If the LP of a 135 is 10' 9.5" per your calculation, the foot must be longer than that. If the angle between the luff and foot is 60 degrees, the foot would be 12.5 ft, which is exactly what Peter got. |
Peter
Stamford, CT
Boat Name: Au Contraire
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1986
Hull No. 13325
Hailing Port: Stamford |
12/08/2005 7:53 PM Pacific Time
Bayard, Do you want to check it out this weekend? I am a few miles from you and my boat is being bubbled in the water. |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
12/09/2005 11:54 AM Pacific Time
Michael:
Peter incorrectly measured his foot. He measured it along the entire curve of the foot rather than just from the clew grommet to the tack grommet as one generally measures sails. By that, natch, his foot measure is much greater than it really is.
Yes, my 10 ½ feet would be a bit under what his foot would be for a 135, but, you get the idea. |
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT
Boat Name: Baby Blue
Model/Year: 1981
Hull No. 9911
Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT |
12/09/2005 12:20 PM Pacific Time
Peter:
Your boat is still slipped? Despite whatever cost savings, I think the possibility of osmosis (blisters) increases substantially when one leaves their vessel in the water all year. Northern boats traditionally haul not only to clean the bottom, but to the let hull dry out. However, hauling is expensive. My tab for a haul out and launch, summer trailer storage, and September to June storage is about $740 per annum. Not terribly expensive for the area, but the boat an’t sailing and that expense don’t put any goodies on the boat like new sails. But, I do get the hull dry.
My guess is too much snow for measuring sails this weekend in that we’d have to lay out the sail on the ground to get the LP measurement. It’s really too difficult to that with the sail bent on the furler. On the other hand I have a commodious wood floor living room that doubles as my sail loft as least once a year when I fold up my sails that would suffice very well for measuring your headsail, assuming you have it folded and bagged already.
Further, do you know anything about the Halloween Yacht Club? Their initiation fees and annual dues are very low. As they have a racing program, they tempt me to join, but for their vespers Thursday night, it might be a stiff ride home to Byram Harbor in Greenwich.
|
Peter
Stamford, CT
Boat Name: Au Contraire
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1986
Hull No. 13325
Hailing Port: Stamford |
12/10/2005 7:21 AM Pacific Time
Hi,
You are right there is too much snow and ice to go on the boat safely. I will measure the maximum height that we can attach to the forestay at another time.
I re-measured the jib according to what you had asked about. The foot is 12' 3" the perpendicular from the luff is 11' 7". So if I understand the formula you gave earlier, that means that my jib is a 145% (11.6 / 8)
Another thing that I never mentioned is that the jib I have was originally a hanked on jib that was modified to hoist on the Harken Furler.
Bubbling vs hauling. It is not a matter of cost. They both cost the same for me $500 (Stamford vs Greenwich). It is a matter of convenience.
If I bubble, I get to use the boat from a great day in March to November ( I was out twice this November) If I haul the boat I cannot count on putting it in till late May or early June because of my travel schedule and I haul in October. As to which one is better for the boat, I have heard arguments both ways. I know a lot of people who bubble and I haul for the winter every few years.
Lastly, I will call you about Halloween later
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