Miscellaneous

Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Miscellaneous / Engineless Sailing - Rowing a Catalina 22
 
 
Author Engineless Sailing - Rowing a Catalina 22
Dave Amundson
League City, Texas

Boat Name: Dove

Model/Year: Wing Keel /1989

Hull No. 14897

Hailing Port: Galveston Bay
11/27/2005 5:52 PM Pacific Time

Has anyone had any experience with rowing a Catalina 22? I have been contemplating placing a couple of deck sweepers on my Catalina in the attempt to go engineless. I realize that engineless sailing can bring up an entire debate in itself and there are numerous arguments on both sides of the issue. I was just wondering if there is anybody out there that has attempted, or is sailing a Catalina 22 without an engine.

OK, here comes the philosophical part of this post. I am one of those types that just hate to start the outboard at the end of the day. I hate the interruption in the quiet and I usually wait until I absolutely have to before pulling the starter rope. I usually only go under power when I’m within a short distance of my slip. Finishing the sail with a set of deck sweepers would just put the topping on the cake for me.

Anyway, back to my question. Anybody have any experience with rowing a Catalina 22?

Dave Amundson
Dove s/n 14897
Galveston Bay, Texas

http://www.CompassionFitness.com/dove
PHILIP & SHARON MERLIER
FELLSMERE, FLORIDA

Boat Name: SWIZZLE STICK

Model/Year: 1990 C22

Hull No.

Hailing Port: FELLSMERE, FLORIDA
11/27/2005 11:21 PM Pacific Time

I have always wanted to try it but don't know where to get oars long enough. I figured that you could just tie the oars to the winches on the sides of the cockpit and stand and row fairly easily.
Greg Guenther
Belleville, IL

Boat Name: Magnificat

Model/Year: 1970

Hull No. 473

Hailing Port: Belleville, IL
11/28/2005 5:29 AM Pacific Time

The gentleman that I bought my '22 from never used the engine at all. It was in an old v bottom boat under a cover and cost me $600 to put into condition. I also hate the noise and vibration of starting the engine and have sailed into some really interesting areas without it. However, it seems to me that for safety reasons alone, a source of power would be a good idea. Conditions can change rapidly and sometimes you need to be somewhere else. I guess that I am just the Chicken of the Sea but my outboard has saved my bacon several times. =)

Greg
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas

Boat Name: Torch of Freedom

Model/Year: C-22 '76

Hull No. 6448

Hailing Port: Arlington YC
11/28/2005 5:34 AM Pacific Time

You have a rudder, and sculling is easy. I have not used my motor most of the time just going in and out, but when the wind dies and I'm way out on the lake, then I use it. An then we usually take the MC's, Daysailers, and Sunfish in tow. Once, my then 16 yearold son, sculled our then 35' boat for about a mile into the slip when the engine died, I was waiting for them to bring the boat around from the club to the slip. Another friend looked up an old sculling oar, and built one for his 26' Feather. It takes some technique to use but once you have the hang of it I understand it moves a boat quite well.
I saw Cat22 champ, Don Carsten sculll his boat out of the slip at the 2000 Nationals, he used the tiller extention, and moved the boat well, myself I have trouble with tiller extentions, and just used the tiller.
For what it's worth, Al Ge
Tim Seifert


Boat Name: Mary's Joy

Model/Year:

Hull No. 8281

Hailing Port: Holyrood, Newfoundland
11/28/2005 7:38 AM Pacific Time

In still waters, in the harbour, I have been able to move the boat. But I cannot imagine paddling the boat in 20kt winds. Very, very hard to move.
Steven Keplinger
Severna Park MD 21146

Boat Name: Nifty

Model/Year: 1978

Hull No. CTYH7999M78B

Hailing Port: Round Bay
11/28/2005 7:50 AM Pacific Time

A 22 foot boat is certainly not too big to row. Whaleboats are usually somewhat longer and have similar freeboard. They were (originally) designed to be rowed.

The critical thing is the right oar.

The right oar is a combination of length, weight, flex, blade design and mechanical strength in it's application.

A quick web-search on "oar length" will give you an idea of how serious this can be.

As a rule of thumb, I like longer oars; counter-balanced in-board of the pivot to taste. I use epoxy tubing manufactured for transport of highly toxic chemicals. It is available in various diameters and weights from specialty vendors serving the industrial users. It comes in twenty foot lengths. It is not cheap ($10 +/foot) but it's the cheapest way I have found to get a high performance oar for anything from a rowing shell to a whaleboat. I use plastic blades glued in place with epoxy. I use a "hole saw" on my drill press to punch out plugs fitting the ID of the oar. Two or three of these, cut from light weigtht stock, saturated with thin epoxy to prevent rot, provide a great anchor for any blade mounted via a projecting "spike"

The same technique is used to fabricate "handles", which are glued up and shaped to suit.

There are various ways to delimit chaffing where the oar works against the lock. Leather is the classic; after reading an article by "Dynamite" Payson, I am happy using 1/4" nylon 3-strand; it's simply wrapped about the oar's shaft for a foot or so, epoxied in place. Seems to last forever.

I can provide you with the name of an antique dealer in PA who will sell you a pair of genuine whaleboat oars for a hundred bucks or so. These are the genuine slammers: 14-16 feet long. And heavy. They're probably over a hundred years old. I use mine all the time.

Unfortunately, the guy insists of pick-up. He says shipping is too expensive. His shop is near Philadelphia.

And, there are lots of custom fabricators and conventional oar suppliers easily located with a web search; should you want to buy new.

In addition to the peace and tranquility, being green, and mechanical reliablity of oars, the C22 swing keel provides the opportunity to take advantage of cheap "not suitable for sailboats" slips and moorings. You can park your C22 in mere inches of water (OK, a foot or so). Row in-and-out, drop your keel and you're in business.

It is possible to wiggle the rudder back-and-forth and move. But it's not in the same league as genuine sculling with a long oar; especially an oar twenty feet long with an out-board pivot. Once you get the hang of it, you can stand in your cockpit and move right along. Arab dhows and Venitian gondolas rely on the long oar; and they're considerably longer than a C22.

Sculling is not as powerful [imho] as rowing, but it's a joy in calm water or even light winds; plus, it has the advantage of letting you face forward as you move along.

One could get really carried away and fabricate "oar ports" about ten inches off the waterline. I can imagine a sliding seat arrangement mounted between the bunks...
Fred Apstein
Gabriola Is BC

Boat Name: Scruples

Model/Year: 1976

Hull No. 95

Hailing Port: Gabriola Is BC
11/28/2005 6:51 PM Pacific Time

Been there, Done that.

I used to scull my 27 foot Vertue copy (the copy part is a long story) 11,000 lbs displacement.

You can make a quite decent sculling oar with the shaft of your choice ( where I live small - 21/2 to 3" diameter)Cedar and Douglas Fir trees are free on the beach with the bark gone from wave action, but aluminium pipe works fine.

For the C22 a 10 foot shaft is about right.

Lash on a plywood blade. tie it to one side of the shaft. With aluminium you need to screw on something to hold the lashing. Tie it loosly to the traveller for the main sheet so you can move it in and out to find the right balance point, and try different techniques to scull your boat. The trick is to let the oar (or scull in this case) turn as you push it back and forth. Mess around with it for an hour or two and you will amaze your friends with your traditional skill.

It's remarkable how well it works. If there's any wind at all, sailing will get you there faster, even if you have to short tack up a narrow channel BUT use the scull to come about and keep the heading as you come about. You won't lose as much on the tacks. Sometines it's scull across the channel with sails flapping and sail up a bit, then do it again.

Been there. Done that.
Fred Apstein
Gabriola Is BC

Boat Name: Scruples

Model/Year: 1976

Hull No. 95

Hailing Port: Gabriola Is BC
11/28/2005 7:37 PM Pacific Time

One more comment. I was 30 when I sculled my boat. I'm 56 now and I have an outboard.
Dave Amundson
League City, Texas

Boat Name: Dove

Model/Year: Wing Keel /1989

Hull No. 14897

Hailing Port: Galveston Bay
12/02/2005 10:56 AM Pacific Time

OK, I’m willing to give this Engineless thing a try. Thanks for all your replies and advice. One of the suggestions made was to tie the oarlocks into the winches. I had wondered about this myself. I have been scouring the web with no luck looking for an oar lock that would lock right into my winches like the winch handles do.

Dose anybody know of a manufacture of such an oarlock?

Also, I was wondering how long of an oar would one need to successfully row a Catalina 22? I would like to be able to row the sailboat both by standing in the cockpit facing forward and possibly by sitting on the bridge deck facing aft.

I’ll keep ya posted on how this Engineless endeavor develops, but if you see me out on Galveston Bay all flustered looking like I need a tow, Hmmm…. Maybe you ought to ask…

Thanks
Dave Amundson
Dove s/n14897
Galveston Bay, Texas

http://www.CompassionFitness.com/dove

Greg Guenther
Belleville, IL

Boat Name: Magnificat

Model/Year: 1970

Hull No. 473

Hailing Port: Belleville, IL
12/03/2005 6:13 AM Pacific Time

Dave,

Have you considered purchasing a couple of winch handles and taking them to a machine shop and having something fabricated? You could probably find a machine shop that could make the locks from scratch without the extra expense of buying winch handles. Being a farmer and having my own shop, this is something I could probably do myself. It is not a big job if you can find someone willing to work with you.



Boat Name:

Model/Year:

Hull No.

Hailing Port:
12/03/2005 8:05 AM Pacific Time

This could be an interesting project! For starters, get an oarlock that has a long pintle. Cut a piece of hard wood to fit into the winch snugly. Drill a hole deep into the end of the piece of wood the same diameter as the oarlock pintle. Insert pintle into the wood. Insert the combination into the winch. If this seems to work, then move on to a more substancial/similar sollution.

Butchie
C22 Swing Keel
#13320 1986
"Sandy Bottoms"
Beachwood, NJ (Barnegat Bay)
Fred Apstein
Gabriola Is BC

Boat Name: Scruples

Model/Year: 1976

Hull No. 95

Hailing Port: Gabriola Is BC
12/04/2005 7:14 PM Pacific Time

Just tie the oars loosly to the body of the winch. The hole in the winch is not deep enough for the pintle of an oar lock.

You want the oars down as low as possible. They're already pretty high at the top of the cockpit coaming.

Folks who row larger (for rowboats) boats usually face forward and stand up so they can push on the oars, unless there are several rowers. Fishing dories are a good example of this.

Try a single sculling oar first. You may be surprised how well it works.

Whatever you try, try it first with a loop of line, then work your way up to more elaborate hardware as you figure out what works.

The larger oarlocks tend to be galvanized steel rather than bronze. They're not very expensive. you can bolt a pair to the outside of the coamings, or mount the type that bolt into a hole if you make the hole so they drain into the small cockpit coaming lockers.

I would leave the winches alone and mount proper oarlocks if you decided to use two oars.

Please take lots of pictures and let us all know how it's working. As fuel and engine prices climb, rowing looks better and better.
Gordon Sell
Flemington, NJ

Boat Name: none

Model/Year: Catalina 22/1977

Hull No. 7282

Hailing Port: Spruce Run Reservoir
12/05/2005 8:22 AM Pacific Time

I tend to side with the sculling solution with an oarlock of some type one the stern.

IMHO, a more practical solution is the one I used for many years ... a 50-lb thrust trolling motor. Quiet. Instant on/off, easy FWD/Reverse, 360-degree steering, and you can pick it up with one hand. I had a 60 Amp battery in the starboard locker. It once took me 3 miles in a dead calm with power to spare, and another time was able to maintain headway into 20+ knot headwinds while docking. You just have to imagine your driving a really big boat that takes longer to accellerate and decellerate than an outboard. Every 3 or 4 sails I'd take the battery home to charge -- solar is an option. Being a small-lake sailor, I didn't use my outboard for 3 years (a mistake in terms of maintenance). I'm writing in the past tense because my boat is for sale at a the Sailboat Shop here in NJ.

Gordon
7282 - NJ


Steven Keplinger
Severna Park MD 21146

Boat Name: Nifty

Model/Year: 1978

Hull No. CTYH7999M78B

Hailing Port: Round Bay
12/05/2005 8:23 AM Pacific Time

One of the biggest considerations may be where to stuff the puppies. As I said in my original post, I use epoxy shafts originally intended for transfer of toxic chemicals. These are stronger than the glass shafts commonly used by rowing teams. And, you can build 'em to suit.

I just used my new Gmail "spelMy thought is that they could be built to take apart. The "working" part of the oar, outboard of the gunwale, could certainly be less robust than the more heavily loaded inboard side of the oar.

To try out my hypothesis, I took the shafts from some downriver Carlyles (aluminum) cut 'em off to suit and joined them to the glass. Naturally I used epoxy to glue the whole operation together. Dumb. Should have thought about where to store 'em when not in use.

I built this set ten years ago for a dory with lots of free-board. And, as Fred suggests, I used them standing up facing forward. This because I was negotiating fast water with lots of rocks and such in the upper Mississippi, fishing.

Maybe I'll tow my C22 over to the ramp and see what works. Guess I wouldn't even have to step the mast!

Another advantage to this whole gig, at least here in Maryland, is that unpowered boats do not require a licence. We only get hit if we have a motor!

I'm pretty sure there's a C22'er in Shady Side, Maryland using oars, and/or sculling. He teaches boating safety classes for the Coast Guard Reserve during the winter. I know his creek well. He has to negotiate the better part of half-a-mile of twisting channel (and, depending, a reasonable ebb or flow). But he gets his slip for next to nothing.

Now, the question comes, and I'm not a racer, could one use oars to gain a bit of momentum before crossing the starting line on those bluebird days without a breath of wind? It's gotta be against the rules!

Steve

PS Just used "Gmail spellcheck" for the first time. Works great! I've always fantasized that spelling, like handwriting, is inversely proportional to intelligence. Now that I'm loosing my mind, my spellchecked drivel won't betray reality!
Steven Keplinger
Severna Park MD 21146

Boat Name: Nifty

Model/Year: 1978

Hull No. CTYH7999M78B

Hailing Port: Round Bay
12/05/2005 8:26 AM Pacific Time

Just re-read my last post. Maybe Gmail spellcheck is not quite ready!
Dave Amundson
League City, Texas

Boat Name: Dove

Model/Year: Wing Keel /1989

Hull No. 14897

Hailing Port: Galveston Bay
02/17/2006 11:25 AM Pacific Time

I have come up with a design and have developed an oar lock that will plug into my winches. With the help of a friend (that just happens to own a machine shop) I should have the oarlocks completed this weekend. The oarlocks rotate inside a square piece of stainless steel that drops down into the top of the winches like a winch handle. It’s a simple but effective design. I plan on posting the design and photos on the web. I’ll leave a link here once it’s ready.

My next obstacle is where to find the oars. My boat has just gone through an extensive overhaul and will be returning to the water in about two weeks. Once I’m in the water I plan on taking some measurements for the required oar length. I read on the web with the use of a long piece of PVC pipe you can get an idea of just how long of an oar you'll need. I’ve been shopping (the web) for oars and haven’t really seen anything that I like. I’m thinking that I may attempt to build the sweeps I need. After all when my boat goes back into the water I’ll be in need of another project; right?

I’ll keep ya posted on the oar lock design. If anybody has a lead on oars that might fit our Catalina 22’s please pass it along.

Thanks
Dave Amundson
Dove s/n14897
Galveston Bay, Texas

http://www.CompassionFitness.com/dove
Steven Keplinger
Severna Park MD 21146

Boat Name: Nifty

Model/Year: 1978

Hull No. CTYH7999M78B

Hailing Port: Round Bay
02/17/2006 7:43 PM Pacific Time

Dave, check my original post last October. Epoxy pipe works fine. Should you want wood, cheap, you can call Mark Milnes, at Hiden River Antiques (610-630-8759) in Collegeville PA. He has at least 40 pairs of vintage whaleboat oars. Mine are 16' long. He charges around $100 per pair. Mine are mahogany...He wants you to pick 'em up. But I know they can be shipped for around $100 to Texas. Sure, they're over a hundred years old...but mine are perfect. And they have class...

But epoxy pipe (check your yellow pages for industrial supplier types) works perfectly. It costs about $10 a foot in the two inch size I use. Larger sizes are available.
Austin Cooley
Honeoye Falls, NY

Boat Name: Wings of the Morning

Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1983

Hull No. 11602

Hailing Port: Keuka Lake, Branchport, NY
02/21/2006 8:00 AM Pacific Time

We keep a pair of 6 foot long canoe paddles on our C-22. We have only used them occasionally, each person sort of stradleing the side of the cockpit, but it works well enough. Also, the paddles are short enough to store conveniently and not very expensive.

Austin Cooley
 
 
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