Electrical

Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Electrical / Batts, power and charging questions
 
 
Author Batts, power and charging questions
Sean Madian
Portland, OR

Boat Name: Time Out

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. CL 3839 FX

Hailing Port: Portland
12/06/2005 5:15 PM Pacific Time

Today my friends at West Marine tried to talk me into $1500 of batts, regulators, etc. I'm baffled!

Time Out should use about 155 amps (12 v) of power for a four day cruise. That puts my batt needs at around 300 amp hours. Youch! First question: what are ya'll finding is sufficient for a four day cruise (GPS, UHF, bilge -- hopefully not running, depth finder, cabin and running lights)?

I was told I should go w/two 6 v, 150 amp gel cells wired in series. Total cost is close to $400. Add in batt boxes, wires and we're at $500. Add in a charger and we're pushing $1k. Second question: what are ya'll using for batts (gel or fluid)? Any worries that fluid batts will spill?

Finally, how is everyone charging their batts? Are solar cells keeping you topped off? If so, what power ratings and where did they come from?

Oh! One more thing. The West Marine guy hated the Catalina switch panel because the 20 amp fuses cover more than one switch. He pointed out that everything would have to short at once for the fuse to blow. Voila! A West Marine panel for $500. Any thoughts?
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY

Boat Name: Marrakesh

Model/Year: 1986

Hull No. 13645

Hailing Port: Rochester, NY
12/07/2005 4:15 AM Pacific Time

Note that two 6V 150Amp-hour batteries in series will give you 150Amp-hours@12V, not 300. It sounds like West Marine was trying to get you to spend lots of money. If you were happy with the electrical system before, and just need more power, stick to the batteries only.

The first rule of cruising in a boat without an inboard motor w/60Amp generator is conservation. If you haven't done so already, make a table of what you wil be running, its current draw, and the number of hours a day you expect to use it. Look for the items that have the highest amp-hours. If it is cabin lighting, consider replacing the cabin lights with low-amp fixtures. They sell units that use 1/10 the amps of the standard Catalina lights. Will you really be using the running lights, or will you be anchored when it gets dark?

If you really need 40 amp-hours a day, and will not be visiting any docks with power, it sounds like you need several batteries. I highly recommend having a generator on your outboard. It might not be sufficient by itself, but it is "mindless energy" you don't have to think about it. I have a generator on my 8HP outboard that is rated at 6 amps at full throttle. I'd have to run it 6.5 hours to replenish 40 amp-hours a day. The big solar panels are rated for about 25 amp-hours a day, and you have to have sun for them to work. You could buy a auxiliary generator, but if you use a 10 amp charger, you'd have to run it 4 hours a day, which is lots of noise.

If you could manage a marina visit half way through the trip with power available, you could use a 10Amp Guest portable charge ($100) to top up overnight, which could replenish 100Amp-hours or so.

Hope you have a great trip!
Karl Mielenhausen
New Bern, NC

Boat Name: Impromptu

Model/Year: C22 1985

Hull No. 13021

Hailing Port: Northwest Creek Marina
12/07/2005 5:01 AM Pacific Time

I would invest in Don Casey's Sailboat Electrics Simplified before I spent 1 cent with your WM friends. The exercise that Mike describes to determine daily load begins on page 31.
Consider installing golf car batteries. They are much cheaper (Wal-mart, not West Marine) and designed for numerous deep discharges.
Re solar arrays.... OK for trickle charge (maintaining), but I think you would find them cost prohibitive to provide your primary recharging power. 30amp-hr per day requires 10 sqft of array.
Steven Keplinger
Severna Park MD 21146

Boat Name: Nifty

Model/Year: 1978

Hull No. CTYH7999M78B

Hailing Port: Round Bay
12/07/2005 7:11 AM Pacific Time

Most of my cruises over a week are made on a totally gutted 31 foot SeaFarer. No Power. No engine either. Admittedly, we just poke around the Chesapeake.

Lights and such are battery powered LED's. They last all season. Bilge pump(s) are elbow powered. We do pack along a 3000gph monster that will run for a couple of hours from a wheel chair battery; more than enough time to hit the nearest sandbar in the event of a catastrophic leak.

The depth finder is designed to be powered by a couple of 6V dry cells. This will go down if left on constantly; but we only use it rarely, the SeaFarer has a five foot keel; we behave. If necessary, we could hook the depth finder up to the wheel chair battery (which costs about $20 at your nearest battery store).

Our cell phones work just fine anywhere in the bay.

Our dingy has a small outboard, strong enough to push the beast anywhere it can't sail or be rowed. And we don't usually stay onboard overnight; this baby is a plastic shell.

My C22 is a comparative yacht...

Who needs all that power? It's more fun to go sailing!
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon

Boat Name: Catnip

Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974

Hull No. 4570

Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon
12/07/2005 7:40 PM Pacific Time

Sean, no one has really tried to put this in perspective so I will try. You are talking volts amps and amp hours in one breath. Back in the old days people talked volts, amps, and watts. Watts are just volts times amps as in 12 volts times 3 amps equals 36 watts. This is nice but doesn't give you much information that is of use except for sizing wire or fuses. Then someone came up with amp hours. Eureka! Now a poor dumb sailor can figure out what he needs. If you have a 100 amp hour battery you know you can pull one amp for a hundred hours or 10 amps for 10 hours or 100 amps for one hour out of this thing. you can also add up your amp drains to find your load. example: a 12 volt bulb pulling 1/2 amp uses 6 watts but only pulls 1/2 amp hour out of your battery so your battery can light this anchor light for 200 hours. You can figure all your loads thusly and not be a victum to a hungry salesman.
Sean Madian
Portland, OR

Boat Name: Time Out

Model/Year: 1973

Hull No. CL 3839 FX

Hailing Port: Portland
12/07/2005 9:47 PM Pacific Time

Thank you all.

After some rework I think my actual power demand is just over 80 amp hours. I'm leaning toward a single 150 amp gel cel, an analog voltmeter (cheaper than digital) and a fused panel (eBay?) with an inline fuse between the batt and the panel. I'm also looking at pre-wiring the charger into the system, a bilge manual override/alarm switch, and possibly pre-wiring for a solar panel. I think I may write a book when I'm done. I passed the overkill point 48 hours ago and my wife has reminded me of that every few hours every since. Thanks again for the help everyone.
 
 
Electrical
Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Electrical / Batts, power and charging questions