Jim Kiesling
Pensacola, FL
Boat Name: No Regrets
Model/Year: Catalina 22
Hull No. 8810
Hailing Port: Pensacola |
 02/25/2006 8:14 AM Pacific Time
Friends:
I have read all of the other posting regarding outboard purchases, but I am still undecided to what motor to buy. I could use your help. Here are the fact:
1) Available funds: $2,300.00 and permission from First Mate.
2) 25” shaft required.
3) 4 Stroke.
2) Strong priority in engine reliability in starting and smooth running.
3) Operations in Saltwater (West Florida Intercostal Waters)
4) Enough HP to push the C-22 in rough bay waters (seas at times 3-5 ft)
I have narrowed search to the following:
A) Tohatsu 6 HP, 25” shaft, 4 stroke, 55 lbs, 1-Cylinder, Manual Start, with add-on 12 V 80W 5A Charging System, estimated fuel use, 0.5 gal/hour : Cost from Internet sites: $1530.00 (model # MFS6BUL) note: 6HP 25” shaft motor is a new model for Tohatsu, available April – May 2006 (I can wait).
B) Tohatsu 9.8 HP, 25” shaft, 4 stroke, 83 lbs, 2- Cylinders, Electric Start, 12 V 80W 6A Charging System, estimated fuel use, 1.0 gal/hour : Cost from Internet sites: $1980.00 (model # MFS9.8AEFUL) note: will require to purchase a heavy duty motor mount, 3 Spring @ $269.00, for total cost $2,249.00
What choice would you make?
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Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
02/25/2006 10:59 AM Pacific Time
I believe both engines will be reliable and have enough power. I have an 8 and never have it at full throttle. I've heard others on the list complain about the vibration of single cylinger engines (point to 8HP per your smooth running requirement). I have also had personal experience with one cylinder cutting out (bad coil), but I was able to limp back to the dock on the other cylinder. I think this is an unlikely event, but still points to the 8HP. You don't mention if either you or your 1st mate would have difficulty manually starting the 5HP.
You don't mention cost, weight, fuel economy, or amount of fuel you need to carry in your criteria, so you should go with the 8HP. It will be smoother, and slightly more reliable.
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Louis Plaisance
PRAIRIEVILLE, LA
Boat Name: Saint Benedict
Model/Year: C22/1988
Hull No. 14686
Hailing Port: Lake PONTCHARTRAIN, LA |
02/25/2006 9:06 PM Pacific Time
Hello Jim,
I bought the Nissan version of that Tohatsu six you are considering. I hate it. It has been in the shop seven times. I have worn out the recoil trying to start it. Never less than ten pulls. It is noisy and shakes like a lawnmower. As for power, it is OK, but mine will not push to hull speed unless full open. It has left me stranded twice in a very remote lake five miles from home port. It is in the shop the past ten days. Other owners love it. Not me. Mine might just be the one bad apple in the bunch! I think I will shoot it next week and buy the Yamaha 8hp even though it is 30 #'s heavier.
Good Luck
ljp |
Greg Guenther
Belleville, IL
Boat Name: Magnificat
Model/Year: 1970
Hull No. 473
Hailing Port: Belleville, IL |
02/26/2006 11:47 AM Pacific Time
Hello Jim,
If you don't already subscribe a subscription to Practical Sailor is a good investment. They regularly review boats and gear and make recommendations on which products they deem best buy for the money. In March of '03 they did a test of small outboards and are doing sets of the smaller motors in groups. Their pick for the 4 hp range was Suzuki 1, Mercury a close second and third place the Yamaha. I would bet that the slightly larger outboards will be ranked similarly. I have a 4 hp Suzuki on my boat and it performs well even in rough water. More horsepower would add a safety margin and an electric start would be a BIG bonus since Nancy has a problem starting this pull start OB.
Good luck!
Greg |
Jim Kiesling
Pensacola, FL
Boat Name: No Regrets
Model/Year: Catalina 22
Hull No. 8810
Hailing Port: Pensacola |
03/02/2006 8:23 AM Pacific Time
Friends:
Thanks for your help: Based on Michael’s suggestion about not having an 1 Cylinder engine, and other factors, I am planning on purchasing the Tohatsu 9.8 HP with the 25” shaft motor (model MFS9.8A3EFUL). Does any one else have engine performance problems with the Tohatsu line of engines?
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Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
03/03/2006 7:06 AM Pacific Time
Hi Jim - I think the recommendation was for a two cylinder outboard. The 8hp fills the bill. The 9.8 is way more hp than you need to push a Catalina 22 in almost any kind of conditions. Also, a 20 inch shaft is all you need to keep the motor in the water, even heeled to starboard. I hope your back is a lot better than mine if you are going to removing the motor, while leaming out over the stern.
Contrary to what others have said, my Nissan 6HP was a great engine. There is vibration at full throttle, but I rarely ran it that way. Any four stroke uses surprisingly little fuel. It was very quiet and usually started on the first couple of pulls. If I hadn't run the fuel out of the carb, It probably would have started on the first pull.
The only reason I got rid of it, was that it was to heavy. I race my boat and the extra 17 lbs was just too much racing against boats with barely 40 lb OBs.
Lastly, I don't know what sites you are looking at, but the following site seems to be running about three boat bucks less for what you are looking for.
http://www.onlineoutboards.com/6hp_tohatsu_outboard_motor.html (free shipping and no sales tax unless you live in TN.
Let us know what you decide. |
Reggie Keith
Houston, TX
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No. 1803
Hailing Port: Galveston, TX |
03/03/2006 2:20 PM Pacific Time
I agree with Dick. Anyone who lives in Melbourne must be OK.
I just ordered the Tahatsu 6 (20") as a kicker for my Whaler Montauk and aux. motor for the C22 (onlineoutboars.com). Previously I used an old (1978) 6 hp Johnson and it seemed to work fine powerwise. Yea if the winds are up a 6 hp is minimal on the C22. But with a little though I can make it work. But I sail in Galveston bay (sandy bottom & no rocks); perhaps the only reason I am still afloat.
I choose the Tahatsu based on price and weight. And in addition it is my understanding that Tahatsu makes the 4-stokes for Nissen and Mercury. Why pay for a name?
I totally agree with Dick. The secret to outboard motors is to run the fuel dry when you get back to the dock.
If I were using the motor on the C22 only, I would definately go for a 25" shaft. However it is my understanding that the Tahatsu 6 hp - 25" will not be available until June 2006.
Hope this helps
|
George
Georgetown, SC
Boat Name: Blu Notes
Model/Year: C-22 1982
Hull No. 11184
Hailing Port: Georgetown, SC |
03/04/2006 7:49 AM Pacific Time
I have a old Evinrude 7.5 (2 stroke, 2 cyl) "sail master" motor that always starts on the first pull. It is an excellent motor and pushes the boat well.
A 4 stroke would be very nice but IMHO, not worth the extra $$$ I would have to pay. I spend most of my time sailing than motoring though. |
Brian Pace
Columbus, Ohio
Boat Name:
Model/Year: 88
Hull No. 14342
Hailing Port: |
05/17/2006 3:24 PM Pacific Time
Has anyone tried teh Briggs and Straton 5 hp? What about shaft Length? Will a 15" work or is 20+ required?
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Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
05/18/2006 5:45 AM Pacific Time
Hi Brian - You are kidding, right? You have a sailboat, not a Jon boat. If you wish to motor sail, you need the longer shaft length to keep the prop in the water when heeled to starboard.
As to the B&S - This thread is about outboards, not anchors. The B&S might work best for the latter. |
R. C. Luiken
Milford, DE
Boat Name: Ricochet
Model/Year: C-22 Swing Keel/1986
Hull No. 13560
Hailing Port: Milford, DE/St. Michaels, MD |
05/18/2006 8:13 AM Pacific Time
I have heard a B&S coming from a long way off. It sounds like my lawn mower with a hole in the muffler.
R. C. Luiken |
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22 '76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
05/18/2006 9:55 AM Pacific Time
A friend here at Arlington just bought B&S and thinks it's great. 4 stroke, only 40 some pounds, and I think a generator on it.
FWIW, Al Ge |
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA
Boat Name: SAILYNN
Model/Year: SWING 1984
Hull No. 11994
Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA |
05/18/2006 7:17 PM Pacific Time
I gave lessons to someone who had the B&S and it was way too noisy for me. When your out for a beautiful day of sailing or even motoring, you don't want to be thinking about your lawn mower and worse is hearing it. |
Mike Trimble
Arlington, VA
Boat Name: Colleen II
Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1989
Hull No. CTYH4939A989
Hailing Port: Mayo, MD |
06/13/2006 3:03 AM Pacific Time
My 9.9HP 2-stroke Suzuki has a bad lower unit (according to the shop.) Does anyone know of someone else that has one where the upper unit is blown, but the lower is fine? The recommended that avenue rather then rebuilding it part for part for 11 hours @ $75 / hour. (YIKES!!)
In the meantime, I have access to a 3.5HP 2-stroke Nissan short-shaft engine. From what I have read here, It sounds like that won't do the trick for me and my 22. Any thoughts?
|
Linda Hoffecker
Lancaster, PA
Boat Name: t/c
Model/Year: '82 Cat 22
Hull No. t/c
Hailing Port: Havre de Grace, MD |
06/13/2006 11:26 PM Pacific Time
Mike:
A couple of years ago, I bought a 21' MacGregor from Grabbag Sailboats in Mayo (great guys to work with) and it had a 3HP Yamaha on it. Worked fine for me in the Upper Chesapeake Bay in 'average' conditions, but I never went out when it was blustery, so..... In any event, I really liked that motor other than having to swivel the head to back up, but just when I was getting the hang of it, someone stole it right off the stern.......yep, the one night I didn't put the chain lock on it.
Now, I have a 22 Cat and just bought an 8HP Honda, LS, 4 stroke, elec. start. Very heavy, can't lift it up/down on bracket, so I bought a motor tilter and just let the bracket down and the motor tilts out of the water just fine. The previous Nissan 6HP 4 stroke was enuf juice, but tempermental on idle. Go for the 9HP. |
Kurt Green
Lake Villa, IL
Boat Name: Sharon Lee
Model/Year: C22 / 1973
Hull No. 2162
Hailing Port: Great Lakes, IL |
01/08/2011 11:00 AM Pacific Time
Hello All,
To refresh this discussion a little bit- I am suddenly in the market for an outboard. I liked my 2 stroke 8 hp- plenty of power heavy but not too heavy at 65 pounds. looking at new motors, I see the sail version of the tohatsu 6 hp 4 stroke is about 60 pounds, the 8 hp is almost 90 pounds.
I sail on Lake Michigan and it gets rough. but I almost never had my 8 hp at full throttle.
Will I be happy with the tohatsu 6hp? Enough power?
Respectfully,
Kurt |
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA
Boat Name: SAILYNN
Model/Year: SWING 1984
Hull No. 11994
Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA |
01/09/2011 9:15 AM Pacific Time
I would go for the 6hp Tohatsu. I had one once on my 87 wing keel and liked if best of all the motors we've had on the four C22's we've owned. Used in San Francisco Bay and the far Pacific Northwest/Canada waters and it never gave us a bit of trouble and handled the tides and currents well. Also the lighter weight made it desirable as we trailer sail and off/on the motor from the boat. Just my two cents worth. |
Kurt Green
Lake Villa, IL
Boat Name: Sharon Lee
Model/Year: C22 / 1973
Hull No. 2162
Hailing Port: Great Lakes, IL |
01/10/2011 3:32 AM Pacific Time
Thank you Lynn.
Do you recall what kind of top speed / fuel mileage the Tohatsu gave you?
Sincerely,
Kurt |
Robert Donehoo
Duluth Ga
Boat Name: Shady Deal
Model/Year: Catalina 22 1979
Hull No. 8940
Hailing Port: Lake Lanier Ga |
01/12/2011 5:46 AM Pacific Time
Hi Kurt, I ageree with Lynn (as usual). I have used a Nissan 6 since 2002 on 8 Northern Gulf Coast Cruises and 7 other week log cruises. Many of the other NGCC cruisers use a 5 or 6HP also. It will drive the boat at hull speed at around 3/4 throttle. We just cruised over 300 miles (Read about it in Main Brace) I used less than 8 gal. (1/2 what a 2 stroke uses).Nissan/Mercury made by/same motor as Tohatsu so check best deal. The only problem we have had is the small jets occationaly clog but are easy to cleaned (Read Main Brace article by Ted Mcgee. 6hp has the biggest jets and clog less---problem with gas quality not the motor. 2006 models and newer have updated electrics. You can also get an charger system for the battery. Recommended if you do a lot of cruising. |
Bill Braun & Christine Sammel
Evanston, Illinois
Boat Name: Da Doo Run Run
Model/Year: 1989 Catalina 22
Hull No. 14840
Hailing Port: Wilmette, Illinois |
01/12/2011 10:30 AM Pacific Time
We bought the 9.8 Tohatsu 4 stroke because then we could put a remote throttle on it, which we have done. Two thoughts about it: 1. we sail on Lake Michigan out of Wilmette, and when the wind is blowing like stink from the west, we are really glad for the extra horsepower getting back to the harbor. 2. That said, if you can salvage your two-stroke, do so. A 4-stroke is a tremendous amount of work because they are SO finicky. Because we were stuck three times with a motor that died (!!) we now: buy premium fuel, which we filter before we put it in the gas can; run the motor dry every time we come in; have the motor tuned and the carburetor cleaned every spring, whether it "needs it" or not ($140); and, most important, we installed a water separation filter between the gas can and the motor. Knock on wood, these steps are working so far.
Just sayin'
Bill and Christine |
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA
Boat Name: SAILYNN
Model/Year: SWING 1984
Hull No. 11994
Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA |
01/12/2011 3:19 PM Pacific Time
Speed and fuel consumption (just like cars) is dependent on the water (terrain) you are motoring in and how you use the accelerator (3/4 vs. full, etc.) before you start sputtering and reach for the spare tank (gas station) as mentioned before. The 6hp was sufficient in all the waters (some was pretty hairy going) we motored in. Balancing the cost, weight and ease of use on a trailer sailboat just doesn't add up to me wanting to go bigger, but that's just me. I currently own a 3.5 hp Mercury 2 stroke for our dinghy, a 4 hp Tohatsu 4 stroke long shaft for our C22, and a old Mercury 9.9 long shaft 2 stroke for the Catalina 25 we just purchased. I race and cruise our C22. To tell you the truth I'd just about rather sail than motor and do most of the time, so I'm a little biased on the motor big or small issue. |
Ted McGee
Cumming
Boat Name: GA
Model/Year: MKII/1996
Hull No. 15370
Hailing Port: Lake Lanier Georgia |
01/13/2011 6:11 AM Pacific Time
Hi Kurt, well you can see we all have different opinions and all of them good. Iused to have an 8HP 2-stroke on my 96 C22. Loved it because all I had to do was push a button to start it. Hated it because it weighed so much and it was a 2 stroke. Personally, not a fan of mixing oil and gas. I bought a 4 HP Suzuki 2-stroke and loved it because it was so light. Had it several years and it never gave me a problem. I made the same cruises as Robert and it drove the boat just fine. Hull speed never a problem though I was topping out on the throttle. I towed another boat about 5 miles with it head to wind in 15-20. White caps galore. Didn't get hull speed but we kept moving. The problem with the 2-stroke was fule consumption. We made a cruise down the Apalachicola River and burned up twice as much fuel as everyone who was carrying a 4-stroke. After that cruise I got it in my head I needed a 4-stroke. We wound up with a Honda 5 HP. At that particular time it was the only thing available. Suzuki and others hadn't quite introduced their 4-strokes yet. First couple of years it ran fine, then we started having problems. Hard to start, hard to keep going. Like someone else said, really finicky. Robert and I looked at it and after cleaning out the jets (a really easy thing to do) it was back to its old self. So I have learned to keep an additive in the fuel, run it out when I am done, and we don't have problems. That 5 HP has given me plenty of power so I imagine a 6 HP would as well. Uses half the fuel as any 2-stroke I have had. Recently I started thinking about getting a bigger motor so I can have the electric start again. Then I look at the weight and change my mind. I am 60 and have a bad back. Lighter is better for me. Plus I look at the boats that carry the big motor and their stern is pushed down in the water. The extra weight will slow you down a bit, but this is for cruising so may not be a concern. If you opt for the larger motor you should also consider upgrading your motor mount. It will be difficult to lift the larger motor up when sailing with the stock mount from Catalina. The important thing, get what you want and what you think will do the job for you - then go sailing and use the motor as little as possible! :) |
