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Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Hull / Keel / Rudder / Tiller / Water in Aft Port Compartment under dinette seat
 
 
Author Water in Aft Port Compartment under dinette seat
Mark Dieterle
Loveland, CO

Boat Name: RANDOM LEIGH

Model/Year: CATALINA 22 / 1978

Hull No. 8639

Hailing Port: BOYD LAKE
04/16/2006 9:36 AM Pacific Time

I bought a 78 Cat 22 last year and just trailor sailed it with no water problems. TI got a slip this year. After 2 days at the slip I accumulate about 2 gallons of water in the compartment under the Port Aft dinette seat. After about 4 days Iget about 1/2 of a cup in the port compartment where the keel lock down bolt is. I just pulled the boat out after 3 weeks of it sitting at the dock and just pumping the water out every 3 days. The water is definitley coming from BELOW the water line. The boat has not seen any moisture from above (it doesn't rain here) and the rail has not gone under since I haven't sailed it yet this year. No signs of water coming from the Volcano or associatted plumbing. I have the valve shut off to the sink. The dealer I bought the bought from "AS IS" had to replace the forward Starboard weldon due to the PO putting a non-stainless bolt in for the hanger. I found it rusted and broke off. The dealer accessed the weldon from the
port compartment where the Keel Lock down bolt lives. That has been sealed with waterproof grease. He changed the weldon before I bought the boat and I sailed it all last year with no water problems. Now that I have the boat out I'm thinking I need to cut out all the glass the dealer put in to cover the access for the weldon. Are there any other access holes I could consider? I was so looking forward to enjoying a slip this year so I could have more time on the water. Let the suggestions fly. This was my first purchase of a non-dagerboard boat. I now know about 100 things I will check for before buying the next one. A leaking boat and 3 days out of surgery for a double hernia and an appendix. I'm on a run. I just don't want to add a sunk boat to my list. Thanks for your advice. Mark D
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA

Boat Name: SAILYNN

Model/Year: SWING 1984

Hull No. 11994

Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA
04/17/2006 1:07 PM Pacific Time

have someone stand on the very back of the boat. look at the fittings inside for the bottom gudegon that the pintels of the rudder sit in. some times that area can produce a small leak with water accumulating where you said. it's an easier fix than the area you described in your e-mail
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA

Boat Name: SAILYNN

Model/Year: SWING 1984

Hull No. 11994

Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA
04/17/2006 1:15 PM Pacific Time

i forgot to say, that if it is the lock down bolt opening for the keel, in my opinion the lockdown bolt is just a wedge and is useless and will cause you more trouble with leaking and sinking, than taking a roll over and hoping that little bolt wedge will hold up a 500 lb keel being slammed down. most people leave the bolt backed off and seal their opening with something more permanent than grease. just my opinion!
Mark Dieterle
Loveland, CO

Boat Name: RANDOM LEIGH

Model/Year: CATALINA 22 / 1978

Hull No. 8639

Hailing Port: BOYD LAKE
04/17/2006 9:34 PM Pacific Time

Lynn, Thanks for the reply. I will check that out. It's such a slow leak that I could place a papertowel back there to detect it. No visible waterstains at this time. I did find that the wooden battery base in the compartment was completely rotted. Way more than just sitting 2 weeks at a slip. I took it all out and found a peel and stick patch on the port side of the glass where the keel cable comes up through. I plan to sand or grind that area, clean it with acetone, and Marine Tex that area plus the fillet along the Keel trunk in the compartment within the next week. I'll probably Marine Tex over the repair and the fillet in the Lock down compartment also.

Thanks,

Mark D

Thanks,

Mark D
Aaron M Benham
33a Loomis Hights

Boat Name: Tidely-Idley: The never ending project

Model/Year: 1978 C22

Hull No. 8070

Hailing Port:
04/18/2006 1:13 PM Pacific Time

Finding a slow leak below the waterline is going to be a challenge. you are probably dealing with a hole, crack or chip the size of a fingernail. I suspect that if the water was coming in through the lockdown bolt you would have been able to detect that with the boat in the water. Now that the boat is both wet and out of the water, the job of finding the source becomes even more difficult.
You said that the battery box was completely rotten which tells me that this boat has likley had water in the bottom for a long time. Well, in the area under the battery box on both sides of the keel trunk, there are two plywood hull stiffeners laminated into the hull. These stiffeners run from the aft end of the battery compartment and run forward. It is likley that these are also rotten or at the very least saturated with water. They can hold an unbelievable amount of water. Even with the boat out of the water, these "compartments" will retain water until they are opened and dried by some active method. It is also possible that the hull is leaking water into the area of one of the stringers and the water is seeping into the hull from a crack or split in the top laminate. If the water is leaking into hull stringer area, it will likley leak out the way it came in so you might see drips on the outside of the hull.
Another method you might try (you might get lucky) is to get a high powered searchlight in the 250,000 candlepower or greater range. Have a friend shine the light on the hull after dark while you crawl around in the various compartments looking for cracks and other damage. You might be suprised at what you see (though not in a good way). You will not be able to see the areas most likley to be the source of your leak be this method.
As a last resort might I suggest (Ugh) stripping the bottom of all paint including the keel trunk and a complete visual inspection. You will have a difficult time finding a two gallon a day leak with the paint on and it will have to come off to fix it any way. As I said, it is a last resort that I don't recomend to any one if you can absolutly help it(being in the middle of a bottom stripping job right now).
Good luck
Guy Marlow
Punta Gorda, FL

Boat Name: Bittersweet

Model/Year: 22/1987

Hull No. 13048

Hailing Port: Burnt Store Marina
04/18/2006 2:50 PM Pacific Time

I would put my money on Lynn's suggestion - I followed all your logic on the locking bolt, and removed the swing keel to look inside the housing for leaks. In the end it was the bolts through the transom holding the gudgeon that had enlarged the holes through the transom and let in water. The trouble is they pass through the outer and inner mouldings and you cant see the leak directly . I had my wife lie in the lazarette with a torch while we were underway and she could see the water entering down the inside of the hull moulding from between the inner and outer mouldings at the transom.
The only thing was - my problem always happened under way and not in a slip.
The solution was to reglass the holes completely and then redrill. A better thing would have been to change the position of the gudgeons slightly too in order to drill away from the repair . Mine is good two years later however.

Guy Marlow
Mark Dieterle
Loveland, CO

Boat Name: RANDOM LEIGH

Model/Year: CATALINA 22 / 1978

Hull No. 8639

Hailing Port: BOYD LAKE
04/18/2006 7:57 PM Pacific Time

Aaron and Guy,

Thank-you for the suggestions. I have my work cut out for me. I have been out of town for a couple of days. It will be interesting too see how things have, or haven't dried out.

Mark D
Bayard Gross
Greenwich, CT

Boat Name: Baby Blue

Model/Year: 1981

Hull No. 9911

Hailing Port: Greenwich, CT
04/18/2006 8:08 PM Pacific Time

“in the compartment under the port aft dinette seat” tells me that the water must be coming from either the bottom of the tube that encloses the keel cable or the valve for the scupper drains in the cockpit.

The reason for it being on the port side I think is due to your engine pulling down on that side.

My guess is that you have an original antiquated brass gate valve for the scupper drains and that may be causing problems. It may have failed and is leaking.

Replace this with a new marlon valve. I think it is ½ inch. However, be careful unscrewing the old valve as you may inadvertently rip out the brass tube that is just held onto the boat with epoxy and fiberglass, a notorious Catalina volcano.

Or maybe it is just a matter of a loose hose clamp on the tubes for the scupper drains.
Mark Dieterle
Loveland, CO

Boat Name: RANDOM LEIGH

Model/Year: CATALINA 22 / 1978

Hull No. 8639

Hailing Port: BOYD LAKE
04/21/2006 6:21 PM Pacific Time

I localized where the leak is coming from while using acetone to clean in the compartments. It is leaking in the area of the keel pivot. A wet spot directly under the keel pivot on the ground. This is where the dealer replaced the weldin that had the broken bolt for the hanger assembly. Do I need to drop the keel and grind out his repair from the inside and re-glass, or can I re-glass or Marine-tex the lower area where the Keel trunk transitions from vertical to horizontal? The are a great deal of hairline cracks in that area. I'm not familiar enough to know if that compartment is a liner or if it is the hull .

Suggestions?

Mark Dieterle
Uwe Behrendt
Rutland Vermont

Boat Name: Joyful

Model/Year: 1977 C22

Hull No. 7200

Hailing Port: Plunder Bay Orwell VT
04/22/2006 3:05 AM Pacific Time

I would dry sail another summer, drop the keel
And do a thorough investigation of the area.
Just my safety message.

Uwe
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA

Boat Name: SAILYNN

Model/Year: SWING 1984

Hull No. 11994

Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA
04/22/2006 8:56 PM Pacific Time

If water is coming in, it's the hull. In my opinion you need to drop the keel and fiberglass starting from the outside. The water is leaking from the outside to the inside, and that's the way you have to fix it. CD and this site has all the info you need for dropping the keel and the internet and marine stores have tons of information on fiberglassing.
Mark Dieterle
Loveland, CO

Boat Name: RANDOM LEIGH

Model/Year: CATALINA 22 / 1978

Hull No. 8639

Hailing Port: BOYD LAKE
04/23/2006 4:43 AM Pacific Time

Lynn,

Thanks for the confirmation. Thats exactly what I'm going to do. I spoke with another 22 owner and he explained how fractures/cracks can occur in the hull and keel trunk around the pivot area as a result of the boat bouncing on the trailer. I had a nasty retread tire blowout at the end of the season last year. I replaced both tires with trailer rated tires.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

Mark Dieterle
Mark Dieterle
Loveland, CO

Boat Name: RANDOM LEIGH

Model/Year: CATALINA 22 / 1978

Hull No. 8639

Hailing Port: BOYD LAKE
06/09/2006 4:30 PM Pacific Time

Leak has ben repaired. The dealer I purchased the boat from(no longer selling boats) had drilled a 1/4 hole between the pivot assy and the liner. He resined over the hole he made from the interior compartment when he replaced the weldment, but didn't repair the hole he made when he tried to drill out the original with the frozen bolt. This resulted in water filling the battery compatrment area. All is good and dry now thanks to PIP at Thin Air Boat Repair in Colorado. No damage to the hull. She also ground the Swing Keel and put a coat of barrier paint on it. Off to go sailing!!
Jayne West
Amesbury, MA

Boat Name: Singladida

Model/Year: 1982 C22

Hull No. CTYH1161M82T

Hailing Port: Newburyport, MA
06/28/2006 12:16 PM Pacific Time

Hi! I think I have a different reason for the water...no matter...how did you get the water under the dinette seat OUT?

Thanks!
Jayne
Scott L. Shermeyer
Cherry Point, NC

Boat Name: Blue Nun

Model/Year: C22, 1980

Hull No.

Hailing Port: Cherry Point, NC
06/29/2006 7:03 AM Pacific Time

Several years ago, I got caught in several severe thunderstorms and afterwards was plagued by water in port compartment forward of the dinette. I found that the culprit was damage to keel trunk fiberglass immediately around the lockdown bolt (above the water line). Remedy: removed the mechanism altogether, since the bolt was in the shape of a taco and obviously leaking. Then I dropped the swing keel, replaced a badly warn pivot pin and placed bushings on both sides of pivot pin, to take over the function of the locking pin. Then I ground out and re-glassed the scar left by the locking pin and strap...and no more water.

mike
oconnor

Boat Name: 2buoys

Model/Year: 82

Hull No. 10888

Hailing Port: urbanna, va
07/09/2006 6:30 PM Pacific Time

ok i guess im in the same boat so to speak. Our 82 22' was new to us last year. Dry as a bone and great fun. Keel cable broke mid summer and we replaced this winter. last two weeks I have noticed a leak on starboard side ( i think) cant find source. Upon arrival after a week away it might just be a quart or so, but when underway, its a about a half gallon/day.

Im an hour from the boat and leave my stuff on there so im concerned about
1) all of the gear gettinng wet
2) a leak that didnt exist last year

As with most owners of this kind of boat I would strongly prefer not to have it hauled to figure out the problem at the height of the season

can any one help with this?

Is the boat in any jeabordy?
Lynn Buchanan
Nevada City, CA

Boat Name: SAILYNN

Model/Year: SWING 1984

Hull No. 11994

Hailing Port: SCOTTS FLAT LAKE, CA
07/10/2006 3:02 PM Pacific Time

Keel cables breaking cause the keel to swing from a 90 degree angle to a 180 degree wtih great force. The keel trunk area is notorious for thin fiberglassed work, so I would suspect a crack in the fiberglass in the keel trunk area, especially around the lockdown bolt (which is worthless IMHO). When the boat is sailed, this area is stressed and water accumulates inside in various pockets. You can dry the boat out, leave, and come back to more water from the boat rocking or just moving the angle by stepping on and off and therefore moving the water out of the pockets. Check this website and other C22 sites for keel trunk repair tips. Good Luck!
Mark Dieterle
Loveland, CO

Boat Name: RANDOM LEIGH

Model/Year: CATALINA 22 / 1978

Hull No. 8639

Hailing Port: BOYD LAKE
07/27/2006 8:33 PM Pacific Time

My leak was definitley caused by a poor repair and replacement of the Keel pivot Weldment. It was obvious that the dealer tried to drill out the existing weldment and replace it from below. The hole was caused by a 1/4" drill bit. I am much more experienced now .

I was able to remove the water by keeping the boat out of the water and on the trailer for over a month while I waited for a hoist. Pouring Acetone on the area I believe accelerated the drying proccess. I have enjoyed the last month and a half with a dry as a bone boat!!

Unfortunatley we are experiencing a dry as a bone summer. Had to pull all the boats from the marina on Monday. Out of water in Northern Colorado. Time to work on all the cosmetic and upgrades I have plans for. A topping lift is first on the list.

Mark D
 
 
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Catalina Direct Discussion Topics / Catalina 22 Discussion Area / Hull / Keel / Rudder / Tiller / Water in Aft Port Compartment under dinette seat