Joe Cockrell
Charleston, SC
Boat Name: Natural Selection
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No. 12936
Hailing Port: Charleston |
 02/07/2004 7:21 PM Pacific Time
Has anyone out there installed one of those inexpensive West Marine fused switch panels? I think is has six switches, maybe five. The switches on my old panel had deteriorated. I got the West Marine panel hoping it would be a simple installation. I believe the wiring in my '84 boat is sound. I just can't figure out how to properly connect the boat's wiring to the new panel. I have a red, white, blue, and black wire coming from the boat, and a red and black wire coming from the battery. Any help would sure be appreciated.
Joe |
Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA
Boat Name: Chip Ahoy
Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel
Hull No. CTY032820374
Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass. |
02/08/2004 1:44 AM Pacific Time
Joe, I replaced my original (1974) Catalina electrical panel with one I bought at BoatUS last spring, for the same reason. (I had to cut the inset hole a little larger.) The new one has six switches compared to the original's five; I use the extra one for the new steaming/deck light combo I got from CD last year and added a separate lighted rocker master switch (lit when on so I don't forget to shut if off) above the ignition key switch (behind the keel winch crank handle).
You can find a couple of C22 wiring schematics on Skip Meisch's website at:
http://slowflight.net/upgrades/toc-elec.html
Rewiring the new panel wasn't all that difficult (and I'm no electrician!) so long as I took it slowly, thoughtfully, step by step, and drew it out on paper as a reference once I was confident that I had it figured out. I also added a masthead light, buss-box, bilge pump, float switch and pump on/off switch, voltmeter, and a new battery. You can almost see the whole layout on my Chip Ahoy website at:
http://www.cltg.org/chip_ahoy/chip_ahoy_2.htm
(Click on the thumbnail photo for "The companionway ...")
Let me know if you have any further questions.
Chip Ford --
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 C22 #3282 - "Chip Ahoy"
http://cltg.org/chip_ahoy/
|
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan
Boat Name: Adventuring
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 1787
Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair |
02/08/2004 1:50 AM Pacific Time
You can find a wiring diagram and drawing of an electrical panel at http://www.fleet130.org/boatphotos/electrical.htm. Panels differ slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer, but they should be similar enough that you can figure it out from these.
The red ("From DC Positive" in drawing) and black ("From DC Negative" in drawing) wires from the battery connect to the "DC Positive Buss" (Red) and "Negative Return (Black)".
The black wires from the boat connect to the "DC Negative Buss".
The red wire connects to the switch ("TO Device" in drawing) you wish to use for the Running Lights.
The Blue wire connects to the switch ("To Device" in drawing) you wish to use for the cabin lights.
If you wish to add additional circuits, such as a VHF radio, the black wire should be connected to the "DC Negative Buss" and the red wire connects to another of the switches "To Device" terminal.
If you have any questions, use any one of the "Contact Fleet130" links on the website to contact me and I'll try to answer any questions. It would help if you have the manufacturer & part number or a digital photo of the panel.
|
Joe Cockrell
Charleston, SC
Boat Name: Natural Selection
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No. 12936
Hailing Port: Charleston |
02/09/2004 11:01 AM Pacific Time
Thanks Chip and Erv. When I get a chance, I will take a closer look at the wiring using all the information you provided. If you don't mind though, I'm pretty sure I will want to get back to you with some detailed questions.
Joe |
Greg Guenther
Belleville, IL
Boat Name: Magnificat
Model/Year: 1970
Hull No. 473
Hailing Port: Belleville, IL |
03/30/2004 10:01 AM Pacific Time
Joe, DC electric is no big deal really. The industry standard for DC wiring is black is negative and Red is positive. When I got my C22, the wiring was a mess. The easiest way to find out which wire goes where is to simply attach the black wire to the negative battery terminal and then one-by-one, attach each of the other wires to the positive and look around for what lights up. Label that wire and then move on to the next. If you invest a couple of dollars in a packaged fuse from Autozone or some Wal Mart, you will protect yourself in the case of a direct short. If you cannot have your mast stepped or make the connections to the mast, an inexpensive multi-meter can tell you which wires have current.
You can contact me off line at gguenther@norcom2000 if you need any more help.
Good luck.
Greg |
Rick Clarke
Yarmouth, Maine
Boat Name: TBA
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Yarmouth |
04/09/2004 4:01 AM Pacific Time
Curious to know what anyone uses for a 'common grounding point'. It is obvious that it can be left out of the wiring, but it seems to be the 'proper' way to ground the electrical system, particularly if one incorporates AC into the boat as Skip has apparently done (ref the website above). If there is an obvious choice for the grounding point, I am not sure where it is. Thx in advance. |
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
04/09/2004 5:45 AM Pacific Time
On Jagged Edge, I use a brass buss bar, that is attached to the back side of the aft dinette seat backrest. All of the negative wires are lead to the bar and the bar is connected to the battery negative post. |
Rich Reisner
Fayston, VT
Boat Name: Meant 2 Be
Model/Year: C-22 1985
Hull No. 13049
Hailing Port: Charlotte, VT |
04/20/2004 7:33 PM Pacific Time
Dick King,
I just rewired my C-22 battery system (including a second battery and battery switch) and installed a electiical bus from West Marine $9.99 for the negitive connections. I installed the batteries by using the electriacl bus as a common ground for both batteries as well as the alternator charging from our outboard motor. Adding extra electrical connections are easy with the negitive going to ther bus bar and the positive to the circut panel.
I still have to do the rewiring on the mast that will have to wait until the weather is warmer.
Rich Reisner |
Jimmy Lotufo
New Jersey
Boat Name: brisey_h
Model/Year: C-22 1984
Hull No. 12275
Hailing Port: Alki Beach |
04/22/2004 6:30 PM Pacific Time
Rich
Tell me how this works with the altenator charging from the outboard?
Thanks,
Jimmy
|
Rich Reisner
Fayston, VT
Boat Name: Meant 2 Be
Model/Year: C-22 1985
Hull No. 13049
Hailing Port: Charlotte, VT |
04/23/2004 7:50 AM Pacific Time
Jim, my 1985 outboard has an alternator kit which charges at the rate of 3 amps. Since I now have two batteries I connected the positive lead from the engine to the output post on the power switch and the ground to the ground bus I installed. If you have only one battery, just connect to your battery directly. My outboard motor dealer who serviced mine this spring said you can add a kit to most outboards.
On another topic, we lived in NJ for 30 yrs (Union County)before moving to Vermont. My former director of finance, Mark McNulty, lives in you town behind the sports complex on Rt 202.
I hope the above answered your question.
Rich
|
Peter
South Daytona, Florida
Boat Name: (Working On A Name)
Model/Year: C-22, 1974
Hull No. 2679
Hailing Port: South Daytona, Florida |
03/03/2005 12:57 PM Pacific Time
Joe-
Oddly, I just installed one of those WM 6-switch panels in my '84 C22. The wires are:
Blue: Cabin Lights
White: Mast Light
Red: Nav Lights
Black: Ground
These connections are via 'spade' terminals (not included) to the open terminal on the respective switch.
The common power connection is via the open spade (Red Jumpers, it's a 'double spade') terminal on the uppermost fuse. A panel ground connection is required only if you want the illuminated rockers to actually illuminate - that connection is at the double spade (black wires) on the uppermost switch.
Good Luck |
Don
Yorktown, VA
Boat Name: Skweedle
Model/Year: '75 Catalina 22 Swing Keel
Hull No. 4821
Hailing Port: Yorktown |
04/11/2005 10:01 AM Pacific Time
I gotta wonder if Joe Cockrell ever got his new panel working.
Some of the guidance in this thread is pretty misleading.
The white wire on older boats is a "common ground" for everything: cabin, nav, and steaming light. My recent wiring work and the diagram support this. The white wire goes on the negative side of the panel (along with negative wires from any and all accessories like radios and depth finders). The black wire is for the steaming light, not ground. Wire it up the way Erv said and you've grounded out your steaming light. Apparently, Peter's boat is wired with a black ground, which is making me wonder whether these boats were manufactured without consistent attention to wire color, or maybe I'm all wet.
BTW, sailing was awesome on the southern Chesapeake yesterday, sorry about you folks out west.
|
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan
Boat Name: Adventuring
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 1787
Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair |
04/12/2005 12:48 AM Pacific Time
Color code in US the uses uses the black wire for (-) and the red wire for (+). (See: http://www.cmsquick.com/Tech.html) Negative is connected to the common or return side of the circuit and positive is connected to supply side.
My 71, 73, the early model wiring diagram and the circa 85 wiring diagram I have all agree with this. All of the boats I have worked on that were built in the US (not just catalina 22s) have used this color code.
European countries use a different color code that I have to look up every time I come across it. This is commonly found in the US on instruments/electronics made by/for European countries.
It's entirely possible someone who commonly works with building wiring (A/C power distribution) used the white wire as common. If it is a boat made by license in another country, the code there may be different.
When working on electrical wiring in boats as old as these, you never can tell what you will run across. |
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan
Boat Name: Adventuring
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 1787
Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair |
04/12/2005 1:12 AM Pacific Time
To continue:
The red/black is for the wires from the battery to the distribution panel. The wires going out from the distributuin panel to the powered devices can use different colors. The return (-) is often, but not always black and the supply (+) wire can be any of several colors, depending on the purpose of the circuit it powers..
Check the wiring diagrams at:
http://www.fleet130.org/technotes/electrical/index.htm
for the colors going out from the panel to the lights. |
Don
Yorktown, VA
Boat Name: Skweedle
Model/Year: '75 Catalina 22 Swing Keel
Hull No. 4821
Hailing Port: Yorktown |
04/12/2005 9:06 AM Pacific Time
Erv,
With all due respect, look at the wiring diagram for the 77 model you pointed me too. White is the common "-" or return, for each of the three circuits, not black. Cabin lights use Blue and White, steamer uses Black and White, Nav lights use Red and White. Everybody knows that black is usually negative and red is usually positive. My original point in my posting above was that new owners shouldn't be looking for a black "common ground", the ground for all three circuits is WHITE. The blue, red, and black go on the switched, or positive "+" side of the panel. I just wired up my boat like I'm saying and everything works fine.
And back to my original point on this thread: Lectrics is Spensive! but I decided that since sailing is my only vice, it wouldn't be money wasted to install a legit electrical system instead of battery operated gizmos rolling around the boat. After months of soul searching since I got the boat last fall, I crowbarred the wallet out (as opposed to the spring-loaded voice-activated safe deposit box Chip Ford keeps in his back pocket, HAR HAR wish I could meet you someday, Chip).
Whoo Hoo racing season starts for the Old Point Comfort Yacht Club this Saturday!!! |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
04/12/2005 10:18 PM Pacific Time
You guys are finding out why electrics are so much fun. The national electric code defines white as neutral and green as ground. Inside electronic cabinets black has been used for ground for years (no neutral). In electronic units (like computers) grey was used for ground. Gee whiz, you're all right. |
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22/'76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
04/13/2005 5:54 AM Pacific Time
There is some confusion with black and white being used for 'grounds'. This is because in AC electric house wiring white is the 'return', and has been for years. In the last 30 years they have added a green wire 'ground', and Ground Fault Interrupters, (GFI) circuits. However, battery operated systems for cars and aircraft have used black wire 'ground'. Then the confusion starts when you add AC ciruits to a battery system, as many aircraft and boats do to accommodate household appliances. Which is an AC 'return', white, and which is the battery return, 'Black', which is ground. The terms can be confusing, since the battery is not really 'grounded'. The term got started when the electrical systems for cities, was DC and the earth was used for the return. Note the tolley cars are DC yet today. Chicago didn't change to AC until near or after WWII. The elevated railway system was a great influence, since it runs on DC.
Hope this helps in reconnizing why some may have been wired one way and others another.
Al Ge |
Bob Endicott
Fleet 77- Ft. Walton Beach, FL
Boat Name: Tequila Sunset
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No. 12759
Hailing Port: Ft. Walton Beach, FL |
04/13/2005 6:04 PM Pacific Time
Guess I may as well jump in too (another 2 cents and we'll have enough for som of that 'spensive 'lectrical stuff :^).
Red+ and Black- is pretty common on auto and marine DC systems and as pointed out previously, Black (hot) and White (neutral) with green for safety ground is common for AC circuits.
The potential (pun intended) for disaster is in a scenario (like a boat) where you have both AC and DC circuits, perhaps even in close proximity. "Let's see... black.... must be either 12VDC ground or 115VAC hot". Not a good place to be unsure. In order to reduce the likelihood of a dangerous misconnection, many folks have gone to "safety" duplex wire for their DC circuits... Red + and Yellow - . For someone investing in a substantial rewire (particularly if they have a shore power capability), it sounds like a good idea. |
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22/'76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
04/14/2005 5:10 AM Pacific Time
Thanks, I hadn't heard of that one yet. Sounds like a good Idea.
Al Ge |
Ray Oliver
Redondo Beach, CA
Boat Name: Poseidon
Model/Year: 1974 Catalina 27
Hull No. CTY013950474
Hailing Port: King Harbor |
08/02/2005 1:44 AM Pacific Time
I need help. I have a 1974 Catalina 27 outboard motor. My wiring is fried. Where can I get schematics for the boat, specifically with a 4 way switch, 2 batteries. I had everything wired, worked on it for 3 full days and when I switched on a jumper wire fried up. Please help. |
Randy Boyd
Mount Shasta, CA
Boat Name: Uncle Lum
Model/Year: c-22/1985
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Lake Siskiyou |
08/09/2006 8:23 PM Pacific Time
I have a 1985 c-22 which has an electrical panel and a 7.5 hp honda outboard with a generator. I'm going to install a battery master switch and I wonder if I can connect the generator directly to the battery without including the rest of the system. Does the generator need to be included in the master switch circuit. Thanks to anyone who can help!
Randy |
Joe Cockrell
Charleston, SC
Boat Name: Natural Selection
Model/Year: 1985
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
10/31/2006 6:54 PM Pacific Time
Randy,
You should be ok connecting the alternator wire to the battery. On my 1985 I had the alternator cable from my Honda 8 connected directly to the battery, and used it that way for eight years with no problem. Now I have it wired to a new switch panel. - Joe |
