Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA
Boat Name: Chip Ahoy
Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel
Hull No. CTY032820374
Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass. |
 03/13/2004 12:45 AM Pacific Time
I had the boatyard rebuild my keel over the winter and it's ready to reinstall on Monday. To see the progress, go to:
http://cltg.org/chip_ahoy/keel.htm
I pointed out to the yard that they still needed to drill and bolt on zinc plates before installing the keel, but they advised against it: told me drilling through the new epoxy seal would eventually do more damage than good. That sounds reasonable to me, but still I wonder about the need for zinc plates.
Any comments before I trailer the boat down on Monday morning? To zinc or not to zinc, that is the question.
Before, with zinc plates:
http://cltg.org/chip_ahoy/graphics/keel04.jpg
After, waiting to be installed:
http://cltg.org/chip_ahoy/graphics/keelshop14.jpg
Chip Ford --
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 C22 Swing Keel #3282 - "Chip Ahoy"
http://cltg.org/chip_ahoy/
|
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
03/13/2004 4:39 AM Pacific Time
I put zincs on my keel about 1990. I'm going to replace them this year because they have deteriorated. I'm in fresh water, while you are in salt water, which has higher ionic content, and I think would be worse for galvonic corrosion.
I understand the yard's concern with breaking the epoxy seal on the cast iron. What about epoxying the zinc to the hull and running a ground strap to the hanger assembly? |
Jimmy Lotufo
New Jersey
Boat Name: brisey_h
Model/Year: C-22 1984
Hull No. 12275
Hailing Port: Alki Beach |
03/14/2004 5:16 AM Pacific Time
Chip,
Is there anyway to install the zinc plates without bolting to the keel? I am wondering if there is any other type of adhesive which might contain metal to conduct an electrical charge.
|
Gerry Sheehan
Olympia, WA
Boat Name: Windward
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13812
Hailing Port: Olympia, WA |
03/14/2004 11:29 AM Pacific Time
Chip,
I haven't used any zincs on my keel here in Puget Sound because I couldn't find anybody that had ever used them. I'm wondering if your keel is epoxy encased and bottom painted would the zincs even serve a purpose. I'd like to know too the value of keel zincs. So far, my keel seems unaffected.
By the way, care to share approximately what it cost to have you keel pulled, sandblasted, expoxied, etc? I think I need to get over the sticker shock before it is my turn.
Gerry Sheehan
Windward
Sail # 13812
Olympia, WA |
David Devine
Bradford, MA
Boat Name: Advent
Model/Year: 1976
Hull No. 5812
Hailing Port: Chatham, MA |
03/15/2004 7:01 AM Pacific Time
Gerry,
I have a quote for the work - remove centerboard, sandblast and fair: $260 labor, $100 materials. I've also requested that they replace the cable and chafing gear - price to be determined.
Hope this helps. |
Lowell Richardson, Owner, Catalina Direct
Sacramento CA
Boat Name: Steamboat Willie
Model/Year: 1984
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Folsom Lake |
03/15/2004 8:48 PM Pacific Time
Remember, there is already an exposed hole through the keel for the pivot pin which, if it is not metal to metal now, will be soon after the boat is launched.
In addition to the cast iron, there is stainless steel, silicone bronze, and navel brass involved in the keel assembly, a virtual battery when in salt water. This is one of the reasons why Catalina's original owners manual advised against mooring the swing keel C-22 in salt water. Protecting the keel assembly with a zinc is
definitely recommended.
As an alternative to bolting directly to the keel, one might choose instead the system we use on the new stainless / lead / fiberglass keels. Through bolt the zinc to the hull. Connect the zinc electrically to the keel by way of marine grade electrical wire, the keel winch and cable. Our kit including electrical wire, fasteners, sealant and connectors is part #D1988. It currently sells for $35.99 |
Dennis Harms
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
03/16/2004 9:05 PM Pacific Time
I am finishing my keel and also am reluctant to drill through the epoxy. I thought I would try attaching zinc to the keel cable just above where it attaches to the keel. I don't think the zinc will come in a size that will be a bolt on so I will need to jury rig something. Has anyone tried this? |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
03/17/2004 1:20 PM Pacific Time
Be careful putting a zinc on the cable just above the keel. What will prevent you from driving the zinc hard into the hull/tube? |
Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA
Boat Name: Chip Ahoy
Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel
Hull No. CTY032820374
Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass. |
03/19/2004 12:49 AM Pacific Time
Okay folks, I was finally able to pick myself up off the floor after opening my bill an hour ago from Marblehead Trading Company for its restoration of my keel. $2,064.28 is a bit more than I expected or was prepared for -- actually more than twice what I'd envisioned. I guess my question is, what would a brand new outta-the-box keel have cost me?
It needed to be done -- no doubt about that -- and I trust the boatyard to do a great job at a fair price and I'm absolutely confident that they did (I was checking on it every week or two). I never asked for a quote and should have -- but it *needed* to be done, so even had I known in advance, I'd have sprung for it, though I wouldn't have ordered that $1,200 Furlex self-furling headsail system!
"Caveat Emptor."
In the end, $2,064 is just over three weeks pay for me. I could have taken off three weeks, I suppose, and did it myself, after I built one of those braces and managed to lift the boat off its trailer onto the framework I'd have had to build first. But I'd still be waiting for it to get warm enough to get started, and probably wouldn't get Chip Ahoy into the water again until our short New England season was half over.
I'm trying real hard to rationalize, visualize that silver lining, as my breath comes back and heart rate moderates. I'm glad it's done, bottom line; now I've just got to pay for it.
Gerry Sheehan asked me about the cost, to prepare himself for his own "sticker shock." Being prepared is a smart idea.
Lift and remove centerboard/Load on
trailer ............................... $200.00
Deliver board for sandblasting .........$50.00
Sand blasting ......................... $300.00
P/U and move to shop ....................$50.00
Epoxy coating and fairing ............. $880.00
Lift and install centerboard .......... $200.00
Materials ............................. $365.98
Tax .....................................$18.30
TOTAL ................................$2,064.28
Chip Ford --
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 C22 Swing Keel #3282 - "Chip Ahoy"
http://cltg.org/chip_ahoy/
|
R. C. Luiken
Milford, DE
Boat Name: Ricochet
Model/Year: C-22 Swing Keel/1986
Hull No. 13560
Hailing Port: Milford, DE/St. Michaels, MD |
03/21/2004 2:30 PM Pacific Time
You all need to move to Delaware. That tax will get you every time. |
Tim Seifert
Boat Name: Mary's Joy
Model/Year:
Hull No. 8281
Hailing Port: Holyrood, Newfoundland |
04/04/2005 8:06 PM Pacific Time
I was wondering if Chip put a zinc on his boat last season. I had my boat in brackish water for about 5 months last year in Newfoundland (49 N) and I epoxied the thing straight to the keel (allowing for swing so the hull would not be damaged). When I removed the boat after 5 months, it was essentially mush. The corrosion on the zinc was quite extensive. I am glad I put it on. I am planning to refinish the keel this spring, so I am thinking about where to put the zinc. I might just epoxy it to the finished keel, again. Or epoxy a nut to the keel and bolt a new zinc on each year. By the way, way does the zinc need to wired to the keel? My understanding of electrolysis is that two dissimilar metals immersed in salt water will create electrolytic action, with the less noble one corroding first. They do not need to be in contact. |
Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA
Boat Name: Chip Ahoy
Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel
Hull No. CTY032820374
Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass. |
04/05/2005 4:10 AM Pacific Time
Tim, I put a new zinc on the keel the first year I owned Chip Ahoy (2003), though it didn't do much good (see the photos, link below). After having it rebuilt for 2004, the boatyard that did the job recommended that I don't add one. Their reason, which answers another of your questions, was that they'd have to drill through the keel -- violate the integrity of the new epoxy seal -- so that the zinc would be "connected" to the iron in the keel though the zinc's bolt. So yes, apparently the zinc must be connected to the boat to minimize electolysis.
Therefore, I didn't add the zinc, and the keel looks just fine today (I uncovered Chip Ahoy for the season just two days ago) except for one spot where I lightly scrapped bottom last season. I'll touch that up before launching.
See: http://www.chipford.com/keel.htm
Chip Ford
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" - #3282
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com
|
Mike Leger #14198
Naperville, IL
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
04/06/2005 6:59 PM Pacific Time
If it costs $2,000 to refurbish the swing keel, what does it cost to replace it with a fixed keel?? |
Chip Ford
Marblehead, MA
Boat Name: Chip Ahoy
Model/Year: 1974-Swing Keel
Hull No. CTY032820374
Hailing Port: Marblehead, Mass. |
04/07/2005 2:22 AM Pacific Time
I don't know the cost for replacing a swing keel with a fixed keel -- or even if it's practical or possible -- but I found out too late that I could have replaced my worn-out swing keel with a brand new fiberglass-over-lead keel for less than the two grand I paid, including freight! "Caveat Emptor"!
Chip Ford
Marblehead, Mass.
1974 Swing Keel "Chip Ahoy" - #3282
Chip Ahoy website: www.chipford.com
|
Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
04/07/2005 4:42 AM Pacific Time
Hi Mike and Chip - This is no "kit" for replacing a swing keel with a fixed keel. It would take a custom rebuild of the bottom of the boat to hang one on. The $2000 shock that Chip suffered should be a lesson to us all. Before beginning any yard work, get a firm written estimate. If the yard won't give you one, go elsewhere. |
Robert Thomas
Wakefield, RI
Boat Name: Nautigirl
Model/Year: Catalina 22
Hull No.
Hailing Port: QDNYC, N. Kingstown, RI |
04/15/2005 2:12 PM Pacific Time
It has already been pointed out that the pivot pin hole, coated with epoxy or not will have metal to metal contact between the pin and keel in a very short time after launching. That means the epoxy coating is a moot point, its already compromised. I just got my keel repaired. The hole was so wallowed out that no bushing would work. The hole was cut oversized and a steel slug driven in and then welded all the way around. The slug was then bored to 1inch in the correct location. Drilling and tapping the keel for zincs is a far lesser evil than dropping the keel to work on the pivot hole again. It is a simple matter to clean up and recoat the area the zincs are in every season. Much easier than pulling the whole keel. RT |
George
Georgetown, SC
Boat Name: Blu Notes
Model/Year: C-22 1982
Hull No. 11184
Hailing Port: Georgetown, SC |
05/30/2005 4:59 PM Pacific Time
Question is: WHAT in the world do you use to drill it with?
I have not found a bit yet that will cut this steel.
Visit West Marine and get a "grouper". These things are 8 lbs of solid zinc attached to a coated steel cable. They have a copper "battery jumper type" connector to connect the zinc to the system you are to protect. In our case, the keel assembly.
I imagine you could just connect it to the keel wench then hang the "GROUPER" over the side into the water.
Could also protect from a lightening strike. |
Richard Isherwood
Port Townsend WA
Boat Name: Sintegrity
Model/Year: 1975 C 22
Hull No. 5141
Hailing Port: Cape George, WA |
06/10/2006 2:17 PM Pacific Time
This thread is a bit old, but possibly my experience is of some interest.
I bought my 1975 swing keel C22 four years ago. It had a bit of rust on the keel which I cleaned up as best I could, though I stopped grinding down to clean metal when I discovered the epoxy coating over the cast iron - I decided I was doing more harm than good. I loaded it with heavy copper bottom paint, and drilled a hole to attach disc zincs. (The boatyard had no problem drilling the hole)
The boat has been in a shallow saline marina ever since. Now and then the raised keel sits on the bottom at very low tides.I have checked the bottom annually and the zincs get eaten at a good rate but everything else seems fine. There has been very little new rust on the keel in this time.I dropped the keel two years ago and replaced the bolts, though they, the hangers and the pin looked perfect. The cable looks fine too, though I guess I should replace it soon.
I started with smallish zincs and have progressed to bigger ones as I was impressed by their rate of dissolution. I just replaced a pair of West Marine CMR4s weighing 55 oz - there was only 6 oz left after 16 months. The zinc seems to go faster the more you put on.
My conclusion is that the zincs are doing a great job, but I wonder what happens to all the metal. I am looking out for galvanised crabs.
Richard |
