t reynolds
escanaba mi
Boat Name: impulse
Model/Year: 1982 c 22
Hull No. 10619
Hailing Port: escanaba mi |
 08/23/2009 6:18 AM Pacific Time
I have a 1982 Cat 22,, two years ago, I had the local boat yard replace the swing keel pivot. Since then, the boat makes water everytime I go sailing. I cannot find the source of the water, but the boat never leaked before updateing the pivot assembly. The boat does not leak at the dock, only when sailing. I have put chalk around the bulkheads and frames in way of the centerboard trunk and keel pivot but cant seem to find the source. when sailing, as the boat is tacked the water migrates up and around the partial bulkheads and is found all around the bilges/lockers. I would appreciate any information, from anyone that has had a similar experience.
Terry |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
08/24/2009 8:59 AM Pacific Time
I would first look at the keel lock-down bolt. If they removed it, it might have opened some space between the threads. You can unscrew it all the way and coat it with a heavy marine grease. I'm not sure if you have a sliding galley but if you do, I would check all the thru-hull connections for water tightness. The volcano tube would probably leak at the dock if it had a leak but stress under sail might do it. In other words, check all the obvious stuff. If they all check out, you might have a more serious problem. I had stress cracks in my old boat, around the pivot. When the keel worked under load, it would let water in. I hope this isn't the case because it is a major fix and if left untreated, will cause the glass in that area to rot and turn to mush. It happened to me. Seeing as you had no problem before, I can only assume that if this is the problem, the boat mechanic let the keel drop free from the cable and might have cracked the housing or done something similar. I hope this is not the case! Hopefully it is a simpler problem. |
Mike Bracket
Clinton Twp, MI
Boat Name: Gunsmoke
Model/Year: 1979
Hull No. 9150
Hailing Port: Lake St Clair MI |
08/25/2009 7:26 PM Pacific Time
Wish we had known a couple of weeks ago. We passed thru Manistique on our way to the Great Lakes Cruise in Bayfield. Would have stopped to take a look and see if I could help.
Checking around the keel lock down bolt is the obvious choice. that is about 4 inches above the waterline at rest and will take in serious water when sailing if cracked around the bolt.
If that is the case, I can give you some advice on how to repair. It might even be in the old posts on this site somewhere.
let me know what you find.
Mike Bracket
Fleet 130
Lake St Clair MI |
Willard Morton
Montgomery, TX
Boat Name:
Model/Year: Catalina 22/1988
Hull No. CTYH4531K788
Hailing Port: Lake Conroe, TX |
08/29/2009 9:12 AM Pacific Time
My keel cable broke while in my slip and the keel must have hit my keel lock bolt(which I didn't use since it was rusted and couldn't be moved). Now the area around the keel bolt is damaged (puckered) and I am wondering how to repair this. (Of course, a little water comes in this area now when I am sailing.) I am thinking that the easiest way is to somehow cut the bolt out of the fiberglass (Dremel tool) and then just glass over the hole. This could be done from inside the boat while the boat is at the slip. Does anyone have any ideas on this repair?
Thanks
Will |
Howard Friedman
Pisgah Forest, NC
Boat Name: Forspacious Seas
Model/Year: Wing - 1989
Hull No. 14907
Hailing Port: Lake Keowee-Seneca, SC |
08/31/2009 12:20 PM Pacific Time
You really need to lock down the keel to keep it from working to freely or falling down with full force if you hit an underwater obstruction that knocks it up suddenly. I think you could screw try to free up the threads with PB Blaster and tapping until you could screw it all the way in. Then you could cut off the bolt on the inside with a long bladed saw-zall and then remove the bolt by unscrewing. Replace the bolt with a new one and coat with a heavy marine grease. You might have to use a thread chaser if the threads are bunged. |
Mike Bracket
Clinton Twp, MI
Boat Name: Gunsmoke
Model/Year: 1979
Hull No. 9150
Hailing Port: Lake St Clair MI |
09/04/2009 6:05 PM Pacific Time
if the bolt wont turn freely it is likely bent. Using too much force might break it free if rusted, but might also break the seal between the metal strap and the trunk wall. It really isnt glassed in there too strongly.
a way to fix it: remove the hangers and lower the keel enough to get up inside the trunk from outside and cut off the bent portion of the bolt. Best done on the trailer. If you can now get the bolt out, you can replace it with a new one, coated with some grease as mentioned above. if you still cannot get it out, more extensive repairs are necessary.
You can glass over the hole if you wish but again, that is best done with the boat on the trailer.
Obviously, if you glass over the keel lock down bolt hole, you cannot lock down the keel. The whole subject of lock vs non-lock is one that will consume a lot of posts on this site. Some folks never lock the keel down (myself) and others insist you have to do if for safety. You need to listen to both sides and list the advantages and disadvantages and make you own decisions on removing the lock down bolt and glassing it over.
If you need some help with the repair, search this site in the maintenance thread. Im sure I have posted my experience in there.
Good Luck
Mike |
Willard Morton
Montgomery, TX
Boat Name:
Model/Year: Catalina 22/1988
Hull No. CTYH4531K788
Hailing Port: Lake Conroe, TX |
09/07/2009 7:18 PM Pacific Time
Mike, thanks for the input. I have looked at the clubhouse items and still have a few questions concerning my repair.
I purchased my boat about 4 years ago and the PO told me that the lock down bolt was too rusted to use. I tried to loosen it but unsuccessful, so have left it that way (I think that it is screwed in all the way) Now after the keel cable broke that area has been damaged, I guess by the keel hitting the bolt. Around the bolt it has been dimpled (puckered) out and some cracking in the fiberglass away from the bolt hole down and horizontal aft is noted. I guess this is from the keel hitting the bolt and forcing it up slightly.
What I want to do is repair it at the slip (in the water) if possible. I don't have a trailer. Can I just glass over all of the damaged area with a repair kit? Possibly cut out the bolt? Can I do all of this work from inside the boat or will I have to also repair it on the outside in the trunk area? Are there any structural concerns here? I have no fiberglass experience. What advice does this forum suggest? Is there anyone that I can talk with off line? |
Mike Bracket
Clinton Twp, MI
Boat Name: Gunsmoke
Model/Year: 1979
Hull No. 9150
Hailing Port: Lake St Clair MI |
09/08/2009 7:15 PM Pacific Time
I guess in principle the repair could be done with the boat in the water. But the bolt hole is pretty close to the water line so keeping things dry etc would be the challenge.
Yes I would say you could carefully grind the fiberglass away from the nut/strap assembly and then simply pull it off the trunk. The bolt passes thru a 1/2 inch hole in the side wall of the trunk. The trunk is about 3/8 plywood with a little fiberglass and resin over it. when the bolt and strap are out of the way, you should be able to simply lay some epoxy and glass tape across the exposed areas to seal it up and call it good. Be sure to coat the bolt hole in the trunk well with epoxy etc to inhibit/prohibit water intrusion. If there is some damage in the area, it would be limited to a slight enlargement of the hole in the plywood. As you pointed out, the keel probably pushed on the bolt and caused the whole assembly to flex and bend. Not likely there is any major damage though.
If you dont have any experience with epoxy and fiberglass, do it on a cooler day and only mix up a small amount of resin at a time. When the chemical reaction starts, it can get VERY HOT and give off some nasty fumes. Keep a fan going inside as you work and go with regular hardner. You dont need the fast hardner. a cure time of 30 minutes is fine. That gives you some time to work with it. Use good rubber or latex gloves - saves on clean up.
Good luck |
Willard Morton
Montgomery, TX
Boat Name:
Model/Year: Catalina 22/1988
Hull No. CTYH4531K788
Hailing Port: Lake Conroe, TX |
09/08/2009 8:12 PM Pacific Time
Mike,
Thanks for taking time to give me the help. What would be your suggestion for equipment to grind off the fiberglass? Would a electric sander with coarse sandpaper do the job? I realize that I will need to grind off enough of the fiberglass to get the bolt and strap off -- but how much will I need to grind off around the cracked repair area? Since you mentioned about this area being close to the water line I am thinking about something battery operated (if I can do it at the slip.) Then would there be any special preparation to the surface before I do the epoxy and fiberglass cloth install? How much of a layer of cloth and epoxy would you suggest? What would be the cure time between each layer and finally before I can take it out for a sail? I assume that West Marine would be the place to get the supplies needed.
Also, after grinding out the bolt and preparing the area what would you think about actually installing a new bolt and nut assembly available from CD? Or would it be too hard to do this from the inside to get the bolt straight or could it cause more damage in the future under sail if I don't get enough fiberglass in this area for strength? (I assume that this bolt must reduce some of the keel klunk so the keel would hit against it while under sail.)
I am already dreading getting into that little locker and doing this work. So I can appreciate your advice to do it in cooler weather -- along with the fumes issues.
Sorry to drag you into further conversation with more questions, but I want to do this repair right and it seems that you have done this before. If you would prefer, you can email me at [email protected].
Thanks for you help. Willard |
t reynolds
escanaba mi
Boat Name: impulse
Model/Year: 1982 c 22
Hull No. 10619
Hailing Port: escanaba mi |
09/19/2009 8:32 AM Pacific Time
HI Mike Brackett
We pulled the bolt and put silicone caulk on it, and silicone on the surfaces surrounding the bolt,, While sailing recently I opened up the locker and got up inside so I could see the bolt, and water was migrating thru the silicone on the surfaces surrounding the bolt, so I am thinking I have a crack/fracture in the material surrounding the bolt.. I would be interested in hearing your ideas on a fix.
Thanks
Terry |
