Dick King
Melbourne, FL
Boat Name: Twilight Zone
Model/Year: Sport/2005
Hull No. 15546
Hailing Port: Melbourne, FL |
 01/13/2004 7:22 PM Pacific Time
I was in the Fun N Sun Regatta this past weekend, sailed in Key Largo, Fl in Blackwater Sound, out of Jew Fish Creek. (http://tinyurl.com/2ok4m).
We had great fun even though there was not much sun. I had fantastic crew and some really good starts. We had good downwind speed (when we went the right direction. We placed 13th out of 14 boats. So what was wrong. Upwind sailing, that's what!!!! The boat simply was outpointed by all the other boats in the fleet. I have a new main, which looked like it was set perfectly. I have a relatively new genoa. The telltales were streaming and breaking evenly. The genoa cars were on the inside tracks. I think I was driving pretty well- at least my crew thought so. However, we were outpointed by 5 -10 degrees. In one race we were at the committee at the gun. A perfect start. We were about 10th or 12th at the weather mark.
Help!!!! Does anyone have some ideas about how to make the boat point better?
I had two good days of sailing and two bad days of racing. |
Michael Smalter
Webster, NY
Boat Name: Marrakesh
Model/Year: 1986
Hull No. 13645
Hailing Port: Rochester, NY |
01/13/2004 10:26 PM Pacific Time
Hi Dick. Glad to see your still on the "list". When you were beating into the wind, how strong was the weather helm? What sort of wind did you have? Has your keel been faired? I don't have any ideas yet, but will give it some thought. |
Erv Zimmerman
Anchor Bay Shores, Michigan
Boat Name: Adventuring
Model/Year: 1973
Hull No. 1787
Hailing Port: Anchor Bay, Lake St. Clair |
01/14/2004 12:13 AM Pacific Time
Dick
I've been known to demonstrate the same capability on ocasion. I've decided, in my case, it's usually caused by trying to point too high. I've found that if I keep the speed up and don't try to point so much I actually sail higher. Give me another 10 years & I'll be able to say with more certainty!!
Erv Zimmerman
Adventuring C22 #1787
http://www.fleet130.org/
http://www.crcasail.org/ |
Bob Vick
Caldwell, TX
Boat Name: Over Keel
Model/Year: <1985
Hull No. 13059
Hailing Port: Lake Somerville |
01/14/2004 7:39 AM Pacific Time
Dick,
I know you have a fine boat, with a great looking keel. You were racing boats other than Catalina 22's?
The only thing I can think of is too much wieght aft. I am 6"2" & 260, my crew needs to weigh 10 pounds to balance the boat and we all need to be forward to cut the water.
When we all sit aft she tail drags & slips sideways on mine. I still get out pointed by other boat models. |
Austin Cooley
Honeoye Falls, NY
Boat Name: Wings of the Morning
Model/Year: Catalina 22, 1983
Hull No. 11602
Hailing Port: Keuka Lake, Branchport, NY |
01/14/2004 1:26 PM Pacific Time
Could this be a problem with the stay tension? It's still a little puzzling to me how th get the adjustable rear stay set just right.
Austin Cooley
Wing of the Morning
11602 |
Jim Johnstone
Austin, TX
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: Lake Travis, TX |
01/25/2004 8:25 AM Pacific Time
Could be many things.
Try going out on a tuning sail with another C22 and see how you point. Sail close enough to the other C22 so you can talk to the skipper about sail settings helm etc. and you can see what they are doing in the other boat.
If you are outpointed for the same weight placement and sail trim and backstay tension then head back to the dock for some mast tuning.
Follow the tuning guide given on the C22 Fleet 69 web page to start. This will get you close to the right mast rake and shroud tension.
Hoist the sails! The Jib halyard should not be really tight , just enough to iron out the wrinkles without adding any new ones. I never use the winch to tighten the jib halyard.
hoist the main to the top black band and leave the cunningham off for now. Snug the backstay and leave the main outhaul loose if the wind is less than 5 Mph and tighten it up as the wind picks up.
When on the water, look at where you have the Jib cars. A good starting point for the Genoa is right in the center of the aft cabin support (behind the window, ahead of the aft end of the cabin) You adjust the jib cars for the wind strength so that the jib luffs evenly from top to bottom as you come up into the wind. The Genoa is generally trimmed to within 4 to 6 inches of the spreader.
To Point: Get your weight and the crew weight forward to the center of the boat and keep the boat heel to leeward at 5 to 15 degrees. Adjust out the weather helm by tightening the back stay in heavier air. Sheet in the main and bring the main traveler over to the windward side of the boat. If it is above 10MPH air you can use some Main cunningham. Don't forget to change this as you tack.
As in the previous post, get the boat moving first, then it will point better.
If you still can't point, try looking at your Keel. It could be the pivot hole is worn or you have a colony of barnacles on it or it is not down all the way. Also look at where you have stored all the stuff inside your boat. You may be messing up your weight distribution with anchor storage (how many do you have on board), fuel (how much do you have and where) , extra batteries (where are they), Tools, etc. Keep the extra weight low and in the center of your boat if you can.
I carry a lot of extra stuff on my boat that the top racers don't. If I wanted to go faster here is what I would lose:
AM/FM Radio
Extra Anchor
Big battery (replace with smaller one)
Tool Kit
Boat Cleaning supplies
Extra boat parts
Extra line and anchor rhode
Extra boat cushions, fenders, and life jackets
Replace large fuel tank with small one and minimize fuel
Get rid of 8 HP motor and replace with 4HP
Ice chest and beer - well maybe I'd keep that.
Anyway there is about 200 pounds of stuff that is nice to
have but not required to have to race.
I can point with the pther boats in my fleet but I make a lot of mistakes driving the boat. When I have a really good crew they allow me to just focus on driving the boat and I make fewer mistakes because I do not try to focus on their job, just mine. Trying to manage everything on the boat is a bad habit I need to break if I want to go faster. I need to just focus on driving.
Jim Johnstone
Austin, Texas
Fleet 69 |
Dick Reynolds
Lebanon, Oregon
Boat Name: Catnip
Model/Year: Swing Keel / 1974
Hull No. 4570
Hailing Port: Newport, Oregon |
01/26/2004 10:10 PM Pacific Time
You have reached the point every sailor must come to. There is no special formula to winning. You can have all the toys that the experts have and still finish last. The secret is experience. You just have to race, race and race . With experience comes knowlege which translates into winning. |
RJ Tazelaar
Nashville, TN
Boat Name: Gecko
Model/Year: 1984 Catalina 22
Hull No. 12180
Hailing Port: Percy Priest Yacht Club |
02/12/2004 1:14 PM Pacific Time
I think it's your driving or your genoa draft position. Did you drive in a scalloped pattern? Where was your draft? What was the wind speed? How much forestay tension did you have? |
Boat Name:
Model/Year:
Hull No.
Hailing Port: |
03/09/2004 8:34 AM Pacific Time
I would also check your mast rake and make sure you are not letting the boat heal to much. Driving upwind is a tightrope and it takes experience to find the groove. It is a balancing act of heal, speed, and pointing. Chop and waves only complicate the matter. I sail my C22 without ever cleating the main. I constantly sheet in and out to keep my boat moving forward without letting it heal to much. In a puff, the boat drives solely on the headsail, while the main luffs. If it heals and stalls the boat moves leeward not windward, and therefore you lose ground to other boats. I suggest finding a dingy and practicing--Lasers work great.
Robert |
Al Gearing
Burleson, Texas
Boat Name: Torch of Freedom
Model/Year: C-22 '76
Hull No. 6448
Hailing Port: Arlington YC |
04/29/2004 5:39 AM Pacific Time
Hi Dick King,
I just re-read all of the above and think that Jim Johnstone's comments are the best. Only one point I think he erred a little in "tightening the backstay to take out weather helm". I think tightening up the out haul will do more. Of course Jim beat me in a close regatta in the Silver fleet, forcing both of us into the Gold fleet, so I cannot argue too much.
When I could not point and did the same thing as you did, I later found that I was tightening the outhaul too much, and when I let it loose I get some weather helm and can point better. The tuning guide he mentioned will tell you that the head stay should have about a foot of slack, side to side at shoulder height, with backstay just snug, sounds loose, but that is important not to have it too tight. You must have weather helm to be able to point, I had lee helm for two years, until I loosened the outhaul and headstay. For waht it's worth, Al Ge |
Dean Hunt
Spirit Lake, Iowa
Boat Name: Stayin' Alive
Model/Year: C-22---1992
Hull No. 15239
Hailing Port: West Lake Okoboji |
10/24/2006 2:13 PM Pacific Time
How high should a C-22,wing keel,with new sails and the best skipper be able to point in say approx. 12 knots of wind? Within 35,40,45 degrees of the wind, what? |
Lucas, TX
Boat Name: Hummingbird
Model/Year: '72
Hull No. 1110
Hailing Port: Lake Levon, TX |
10/26/2006 7:35 PM Pacific Time
Dean, In moderate wind with flat seas I figure I tack through 80-85 degrees. I usually spot laylines at about 85 dergrees. If you half that I'm sailing at 40-43 degrees to the wind. In light air I spot laylines at 90 degrees plus. The C22 is not very close winded.
The closest winded boat I've ever sailed on was an Etchells 22. It would tack through 70-75 degrees. I half that and your pointing at 35 degrees. BTW, I didn't hit a single layline all weekend. We overstood every one.
Good Sailing,
Pete Harper
#1110 Hummingbird
PS: Note this thread was started by the late Dick King. It is hard to believe he is no longer with us. He was a great guy. |
